Horse Forum
Home Forum Home Search Horses for Sale Other ClassifiedsNEW! Post an Ad Help

Go Back   Horsetopia Forum > Horse Advice > Health & Nutrition
Note: Forum logins are completely separate
from your Horsetopia classifieds account or wishlist.
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-17-2007, 06:40 PM  
Pasture Pet
 
Carri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
Posts: 14,311
Giving a mare hormones to control cycle

As y'all all know, my daughter Anna has a precious little pony mare named Sweet Pea. She has wonderful ground manners, will stand forever and let my daughter play with her, and is just a total doll-baby.
But, and you knew there had to be a but, she is AWFUL for my daughter to ride periodically. I started charting it a few months ago, and it is every 19-21 days, she is intolerable for 5 or 6 days. Then she goes back to normal.
I, and the vet agrees, that this looks like it must be her heat cycle, even though you cannot tell she is in heat otherwise.
The vet would like to start giving her an injection of Depo-Provera once every three months to keep her from coming into heat.
Has anyone used this? Or something like it? What are the risks associate with giving a mare hormones? Does it really work to make the behaviour better?
I am still in the information gathering stage and would like to hear all the pros and cons before I make a decision.
Carri is offline  
Old 07-17-2007, 06:45 PM  
Pasture Pet
 
gbarmranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mayberry
Posts: 32,628
My friend who showed reiners used it on her mares all the time - worked great... Like having female geldings...
__________________
http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses

If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo
gbarmranch is offline  
Old 07-17-2007, 06:46 PM  
Started
 
barnmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: northeast pennsylvania
Posts: 2,771
I just love the mare magic, Gracie is in heat now and she was so bad before when in heat it was a pain for Nicole to ride her, and she had a wonderful ride yesterday, ut is a 100% turnaround. I swear before if you looked up mareish in the dictionary Gracie's picture would be there, I love it!

It's $25 for a 2 month supply so it's not that expensive that you can't give it a try.
barnmom is offline  
Old 07-17-2007, 06:47 PM  
Greenbroke Member
 
eieio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,138
If you have no plans to breed her and it is causing a problem, I would say yes. I also look at this another way. The Depo will make her smell bred to other horses. As much as you show her, it will even out her temperment but also keep away the advances of studdy geldings and stallions. For your daughters sake this makes her safer and in the case of your daughter standing in the warm up arena and another "stud" gets loose. The stud will go after another "better smelling" mare and you leave yours and your daughter ALONE!
__________________

There is no such thing as a always or never in the horse world. Say that one time and some horse some where will prove you wrong!.
eieio is offline  
Old 07-17-2007, 07:58 PM  
Yearling Member
 
alihspharaoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 895
Send a message via AIM to alihspharaoh
If you are showing...be careful about some of the herbal mare supplements. Some of them contain ingredients that are illegal in the show ring.
__________________


I believe you have my stapler.
alihspharaoh is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 04:19 AM  
Greenbroke Member
 
joustinggirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boones Mill, Virgina
Posts: 3,816
After talking to my vets, I will be using the oral Regumate. They say that there are basically no side affects of the oral. There are a few more with the long acting injection.
__________________

Pink Tiger says 'Grrrrrr'
joustinggirl is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 04:24 AM  
Pasture Pet
 
gbarmranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mayberry
Posts: 32,628
It can mess up the mare's breeding ability later on, but you aren't planning on breeding her, so it should be fine... and the difference it makes in the behavior aspect is wonderful...
__________________
http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses

If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo
gbarmranch is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:05 AM  
Kid Safe
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Posts: 7,421
I couldn't disagree more...

Both we and our horses are drug-free, and glad of it.

We have become a pill-popping, drug based society. It is sick...

Kid won't sit still? Give him Ritalin...
Bad day at work? Take a Valium...
Stub your toe? Take a Darvon...
Indigestion? Take a Zantac...

Modern medicine can accompish wonders, but drugs should be taken when absolutely necessary to treat a health problem - NOT for "convenience". Doesn't matter if it is a person or a horse...
Faceman is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:17 AM  
Pasture Pet
 
Carri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
Posts: 14,311
Face, I know, that is exactly what I am struggling with. That is why I asked! That is the big question, do I change her behaviour with drugs, or do I teach my daughter she just has to deal with it. It is even mpre of an issue when dealing with children, you have to be careful what you are inadvertantly teaching them. But, by the same token, I take the same sort of thing (I have 4 kids already, I am done!) and I don't want any unwanted horsey pregnancies either. There are two studs on the property.

Joustingirl, I talked to my vet about Regumate before he mentioned Depo Provera, and both my vet and my B/O have said they have not had good results with it actually working. Just their opinion, I would love to hear from others if they have had good experiences with it!

Alihspharoah, I have heard that too, that since it is a calming agent rather than a hormone supplement, it may test illegal for showing and we don't want that to happen. And don't worry, we are not having any trouble with Pris! She is totally different, when she is in heat, she is not at all moody, she just pees everywhere, which I can deal with!
Carri is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:32 AM  
Coming two
 
nomeanjean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Freezing WV
Posts: 1,555
This is a tough situation either way you go (as far as teaching lifes lessons). I am with face, I think that society today is too much in favor of giving drugs for this and drugs for that. On the other hand, some drugs are a necessary tool for taking care of problems.

I guess it all comes down to if the pros outweigh the cons. I can see a decision either way. I have a mare that has brutal heat cycles. When she is in heat she is a real witch to say the least. I thought maybe they would lighten up with her having a foal this year but, it has just made the heat worse.

Keep us posted!
__________________

One of the best things to hold onto in this world is a friend.
nomeanjean is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 05:46 AM  
Kid Safe
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arkansas Ozarks
Posts: 7,421
Particularly when it is your daughter's horse, I really think it would be wrong. But again, this is just my opinion.

There is more to horsemanship than just learning how to sit and give commands. Many, many people that think they are good "horsemen" don't know the first thing about horses. They might as well be riding a mechanical horse in front of Walmart.

How many times in this forum do you read of someone asking "what happened"? Their great horse that is "good" most of the time all of a sudden bucked them off... Well, of course what has happened is they have learned to ride, but not to read and communicate with their horse. As soon as something "different" occurs, be it mood, weather, health problem, or whatever, they are clueless and find themselves eating dirt wondering what the heck happened.

Learning how to handle a mare with her different moods is all part of the learning process. Geldings are much more consistent, but ALL horses have their occasional moods, can be lethargic in the heat of the day, highly energetic and hard to control when it is cool or windy, or can just not feel up to snuff.

A good "horseman" has learned how to handle and cope with all these things, can read their horse's moods, and makes the necessary adjustments to act as one with their horse - no matter the mood of the horse - or them.

If your daughter learns to ride on a "mechanical" horse, what is going to happen when she encounters a real one? Will she really learn horsemanship?

My horses and I are individuals with moods, feelings, wants, and desires - not machines. We act as a team and we each compromise and make adjustments to accommodate the other. I like it that way...
Faceman is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 07:38 AM  
Started
 
barnmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: northeast pennsylvania
Posts: 2,771
That's why I like the mare magic, it's only rasberry leaves, totally natural, and Gracie was horribly miserable when she cycled, she still goes into heat, just milder symptoms.
barnmom is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 08:08 AM  
Greenbroke Member
 
eieio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,138
The only thing is that Depo is not a performance enhancing or calming drug. Yes, it will slow down the heat cycles, but will it change the ponies mentality?

As a long time used of Depo myself, believe me, it does not. As a person who is hard to get to take an Aspirin I am very Anti Drug, But, Depo is very different. First with two studs in the barn she is living with and a small pony, this is smart. The damage caused by one "escape" breeding for a pony her size could be very bad. Secondly I view it as a safety measure for the child.

I would use Depo long before I would use Regumate as Depo is much easier on the mares hormones. Yes, she will not cycle at all, but I also look at the age of your daughters and the fact that good horsemanship is achieved over time and well made young riders are brought along on a series of horses, for many geldings. If Sweet Pea was a gelding, no one would have this conversation.

I see nothing wrong with protecting the pony and the children until as riders they are better able to deal with the heat cycles and their ramifications. As instructor I would rather see a parent use Depo for the safety of their child and pony. It would be different if you were using a calming drug or performance enhancing medication.
__________________

There is no such thing as a always or never in the horse world. Say that one time and some horse some where will prove you wrong!.
eieio is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 08:19 AM  
Kid Safe
 
Range's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Back of Beyond
Posts: 7,281
This is a hard decision and one I was faced with this spring. When Dixie started cycling again, she was absolutely a nightmare. We're not talking just in riding because it was impossible to ride her since she couldn't be caught. When she's in heat, she's supersensitive to anything touching her skin, so flies and mosquitoes are hard on her. I struggled with the idea of a supplement for her to help calm her. Just the fact I couldn't catch her was dangerous, what if she got hurt? But, I didn't want to use a band-aid. I wanted to be able to deal with her as she was. So, I waited. After a couple of months, she "settled" into her cycles again and is back to the same Dixie I knew before. She is very sensitive during her heat and I have to be aware of that. I will be prepared next spring for this behavior again...

I have to say, Face, I find one problem in your arguement. Yes, we should be able to deal with our horses as they are without medication. However, the way your arguement runs - we should also be able to deal with stallions. I know I'm looking deeper, but many people who can't control their studs get them gelded, is that teaching proper horsemanship?

This is a decision that must be made for you in your situation. I don't agree with the hormones, but I don't see a problem with a supplement that might work, like the raspberry leaves.
__________________

"Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it all... you just might get it all, and then some you don't want." Chris Daughtery

www.goatsandsoaps.com for all your Boer goat and bath soap needs.
Range is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 09:15 AM  
Long Yearling
 
Eagles Nest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,018
I hate to dissagree, but I think there are cases where drugs are nessecary. No, I don't run and take an advil, asprin, or aleve everytime I have an ache, and I don't take a midol every time I get my period. Actually if you look in my med cabinet you won't find anything but a toothbrush and makeup, but my barn sure has a whole slew of drugs...Why??? It is my job as a horseman to make the horse as comfortable as possible.


Is a horse with bad cycles different from a woman with bad cycles??? If her cycles are causing her so much pain and hormonal issues that she is THAT difficult to ride then I say "YES, use the drugs"!!!!!!!!

Some people need various hormones to get through the day withough being royal witches, (heck I actually know one) and if that is what they need to live a normal productive life then so be it.

It doesn't sound to me like your mare falls into normal, it may be just because she's around two studs, but I have studs in my barn and a bunch of mares, and none of them are fussy during their heat, half the time they don't really even show heat! (although we aren't teasing them). I would say that is more "normal" then a mare being very unreceptive to riding during her cycles. Your child's safety is at risk here if the mare gets so cranky she is going to buck for 5-7 days of the month.

I guess I dissagree with some people here, but a horse is here to earn his living by providing entertainment and education for it's owners (along with emotional bonds etc.) If they can't do that someone needs to find a way to make them. Being a good horseman IS learning to read the horse, but it is also about figuring out the horse (which she did by charting when the mare was wicked) and then finding a way to deal with it.

I have no problem with hormones, they're just hormones, and if she isn't a world beater/next hall of fame broodmare, just destined to be bred, and you have no plans to breed her, I'd say use the depo. (regumate does work well, but I find it to be a pain in the neck, if you forget a day it won't work, if you get it on you it will screw with your cycles, and it is just plain messy, the shot is better).
__________________
You earn your blue ribbons at home, you just pick them up at shows!
Eagles Nest is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 10:18 AM  
Coming two
 
Lopin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by eieio View Post
I see nothing wrong with protecting the pony and the children until as riders they are better able to deal with the heat cycles and their ramifications. As instructor I would rather see a parent use Depo for the safety of their child and pony. It would be different if you were using a calming drug or performance enhancing medication.
YES!

Carri, talk to your vet about inserting a marble into SweetPea. Cheap, easy and it does the trick.

I have a gelding on Regumate when he goes to shows, but that's a whole 'nuther thing!
__________________


When life gets you down - just put on your big girl panties and deal with it.
Lopin is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 10:35 AM  
Pasture Pet
 
ToveroMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cleveland TX
Posts: 17,059
Well,speaking as someone who takes a pill everyday so I do not bite people in the leg when they annoy me-a pill for high blood pressure and a pill for genetic HIGH cholesterol...I may not be an obvious choice to be middle of the road in my asessment.
I KNOW some issues with mares are training related but I see no reason to not use the Depo or even spay a mare who is witchy when cycling or is just plain never going to be bred[or should never be bred]
I think we will see a lot more mares being spayed as people realize there are a whole lot of horses out there and no longer any place for all the unwanteds to go with the closure of the slaughter plants.
I had a spayed mare from the TX Dept of Corrections that was a joy. Her name was **tch. Yep and I hear she was one prior to the spay. She was the best thing-no flare ups,same horse everyday.
The cost is coming down and vaginal spays are very cost effective and they can return to riding in a few days.
ToveroMom is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 12:44 PM  
Greenbroke Member
 
joustinggirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boones Mill, Virgina
Posts: 3,816
My mare is very well trained and a dream to deal with, except when she is in heat. Everything is a problem for her when she is "in." From the flies to the neighbors to how her pasture mate looks at her.

She frets, paces and sweats hundreds of pounds off. I have pictures if you think I am kidding. You can't tell me that she is not miserable. I am all for training, but there are some things that training will not fix.

I have been considering spaying.
__________________

Pink Tiger says 'Grrrrrr'
joustinggirl is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 12:55 PM  
Bombproof Member
 
Orchid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11,148
Carri, I see it has been mentioned by others, but have you considered spaying her? I don't think you have intentions of breeding, and with the expense you will occur over time with either the Depo-Provera or the Regumate, you may very well save money in the long run via the spay.

I'd try the marbling first if your vet does it, and then if that doesn't work consider spaying her.
__________________


Careful what you wish; Careful what you say; Careful what you wish; You may regret it; Careful what you wish; You just might get it. ~ Metallica, King Nothing
Orchid is offline  
Old 07-18-2007, 01:21 PM  
Long Yearling
 
ruffian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,283
I gotta jump in on this one
Sorry Faceman, but have you ever had cramps????
I was actually on depo myself for several years and I loved it, never felt better and cramps and other symptoms that would wipe me out were gone.
Just a note, I had three toes stitched without anesthetic because I was pregnant and wouldn't take drugs, so I am not a wimp.
The very life we give our horses is unnatural, in the wild this pony would be popping babies and running away from predators, not eating grain and being hauled to shows.
I think in some cases drugs are warranted, even necessary and after careful consideration (which I think you' ve done) I would do it in some situations.
__________________

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Monty Python
ruffian is offline  
 
Closed Thread

  Horsetopia Forum > Horse Advice > Health & Nutrition


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heat cycle paso_lover Dogs 7 12-20-2010 10:18 PM
Documenting a mares cycle Kelly4NC Health & Nutrition 2 02-14-2007 02:23 PM
Heat cycle in mares-how long Jadesmygirl Health & Nutrition 7 10-23-2006 08:12 PM
Mare's Heat Cycle wildcat180 Breeding & Genetics 2 05-19-2006 10:54 AM
Next cycle after foal heat jkpisani Breeding & Genetics 6 02-20-2006 07:43 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Board Powered by vBuletin ® Copyright © 2000 - 2007 Jel Soft

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0