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Old 12-07-2005, 12:43 PM  
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Possible to tell if a horse is really a gelding?

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to tell by looking if a gelding is really a proper gelding or just a horse that never "dropped"?

Something I was thinking about the other day...no reason really, but be nice to know in case it comes up!

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Old 12-07-2005, 12:58 PM  
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Personally, these are the only experiences that i have had where we found out a gelding was really proud cut-

1- The gelding looked studish (big muscles, big build, etc) but, dont always use this to judge whether or not the horse is proud cut.. because some people keep their colts studs for a few years just so they will look like this.. then they geld them

2- A gelding and a mare live together.. suddenly a baby appears. It has happened! A mare was proven to not be pregnant, then they put a gelding out with her and she begins to show a few months down the line.. BAM baby!

3- Studly behavior.. again, some horses retain this behavior if they were a stud for a few years (see number 1) They typically have an "edgy" personality

I think thats it.. there MAY be a way to x ray to see it (thats how we found a way ward testicle by the spine) but it costs money.. so be prepared to spend =)
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:57 PM  
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Good post.
Proud cut is refers to "incomplete gelding", where some of the tissue
is not removed and may produce higher testosterone levels than
you normally get in a gelding. It is the testosterone that produces
the stud like behavior, not memory.

There is a place on the cords that is like a knot, bean, etc., etc., that
produces the testosterone. If not cut above this, you will have a stud
acting gelding.

Proud cut geldings cannot reproduce, for they have no sperm.
Only stallions with one or both left up or down, or decend after
cutting the one.

To determane if it is gelding or not, well, if you purchase the horse,
and he acts proud, x-rays, if you yourself had the horse gelded,
you should know by your Vet.
My Vet always shows where he is cutting and it is
above the knots.

If gelding late, or after breeding, a time period is needed for the testosterone to leave his system. They say a month for every year, but
I have had geldings needing more time to settle on down.
When I go out to feed, I will just have to examine my geldings, .
To see the difference from them and my colt.
Let you know later.
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Old 12-07-2005, 01:59 PM  
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I rode a stallion for 5 years and nobody ever knew he was a stud. He was thin, never talked to the mares, and was the submissive stud in the field. So I don't think you could tell by just looks and the way they act. A testosterone level would let you know.
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:07 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joustinggirl
A testosterone level would let you know.
Actually, not really. Geldings not cut properly will have a high
testosterone level as a stallion.
There are many stallions like you posted that act that way due to
their breeding, handling and training.
I had a stallion the same way. Never knew he was a stallion.
I dont think you can really tell by looking, but according
to what I have read, the testosterone test is not accurate
as well since the gelding was not cut above where the testosterone
producing glands are.
They will have the levels same as a stallion, or very close.
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Old 12-07-2005, 02:34 PM  
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Equine Alberta-a testosterone level would tell you if a horse was a crypt. Cryptorchids are stallions with a retained testicle[sometimes both]
Testosterone is only produced in the testicle and that is readily apparent when excised during the castration. The epididymous and vas deferans are only conduits..no hormone production is done there.
You can hunt a hidden testicle with an ultrasound if after the testosterone level is is tested it is higher than it should be.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:01 PM  
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Thanks for correcting me on the the main testosterone
source, Toveromom.
There are other sources that produce testosterone and like it,
that is the adrenal gland, and the knots I referred to,
(dont know if this is spelled right) epididimus.
There is also another test you can get to see if it is a cryptorchid.
I will also get in touch with my Vet on pics of a (mare),
ready, that was gelded, that a friend of mine owned.
Morphadite, spelled correctly???
She was a rage of harmones. We thought her vagina was deformed.
but actually at the bottom was the penis. She has a sheath, with 2
teats on both sides.
Costly to get her gelded. Thats sounded odd, huh.
First and last I have seen of one of them.
After gelding her, she was a as docil as a mare.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:14 PM  
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Hermaphrodite has sex organs of both the male and female i saw a surgery one time on TV of the spay and castration of a BLM Burro-fascinating
The adrenal glands do produce small amounts of testosterone but then again so do the ovaries. The adrenals are safely tucked inside and on top of the kidneys so they are not at risk during a gelding
I think the only point we are not agreeing on is the epididymous-as far as I have learned it is just a structure where the spermatazoa mature. A holding and delivery system only[not capable of production of anything]
I really think that the behaviors observed by some folks that leads them to cite "proud cut" geldings-can be attributed to learned behaviors and secondary sex indicators[thick jowled,bulky muscled..etc]
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:19 PM  
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Sorry, I was answering the question at hand. Nothing was asked about proud cut horses. Only "proper gelding" and "never dropped". Silly me.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:21 PM  
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Sorry I did answer EA but then responded to another one
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:23 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joustinggirl
Sorry, I was answering the question at hand. Nothing was asked about proud cut horses. Only "proper gelding" and "never dropped". Silly me.
Personally, i thought proud cut fell under the question at hand. Someone may buy a horse that is a "gelding" but for all they know one of the testicles were cut, and the second never descended. Its happened.

Ive seen it happen first hand, hence why i shared my experiences with it.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:41 PM  
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OK, I have a question that is sort of along the same lines. Can "proper gelded" horses how should I put this.......become erect when interested in a mare? Or is that only in proud cut geldings?
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:50 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy!

Personally, i thought proud cut fell under the question at hand. Someone may buy a horse that is a "gelding" but for all they know one of the testicles were cut, and the second never descended. Its happened.
.
If it never descended, its a cryp. Proud cut means that part of the testicle or cord was left.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:53 PM  
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Speaking of Cryptorchid stallions... I heard that the testicle that is decended produces good sperm, whereas the one that did not decend, is sterile. Is this true??

Brittany
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:55 PM  
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Erect, im not sure.. but just this weekend when i went over to teach my lessons, this one gelding had it out, it wasnt erect.. sort of floppy.. but it was out, and he was mounting her.

So.. i guess they can kinda go through the motions, but without the testosterone... i guess it wont get firm.. i dunno
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:55 PM  
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Hey, all of you did answer.
Proud cut is a gelding, but both testicles removed, not cut
above the epididymus.
Toveromom pointed out one that retains one or more up is
a cryptorchid.
No sorries, very interesting and I learn more by doing
research.
I knew what a proud cut gelding was allready, but
looked it up to make sure, and what I posted is what I was told.
How do you not learn anything if you are not opened
to everything.
And Toveromom, you are right on the epididymus (thanks for the proper
spelling) but it does have a effect on the gelding. If not cut above,
it holds and does produce some testosterone. And my Vet said the same
thing you did on learn behavior.
I didnt mean to offend anyones answer.
I thought we were answering a question to the best of our knowledge,
and learn something from others.
Is it a full moon??? Just woundered.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:56 PM  
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I have also heard that Thorab.
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Old 12-07-2005, 03:58 PM  
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Whoops! Misunderstanding on my part, i always heard proud cut was when one entire testicle was left.

My bad! =)
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Old 12-07-2005, 04:06 PM  
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Thunderbaby, yes a properly cut gelding can get erect, and mount a mare. He can not get her pregnant.

A crypt-orchid is a horse who was born with only one testicle. (dropped or not) A testicle that has not dropped is considered to be undescended. You can have either one or two undescended testicles.

Many people use the term proudcut (incorrectly) to mean acting with studdy behavior such as mounting a mare. What it really means is that all of the testicle was not taken out of the sack. I want to say it is the epididamis. (but I'm not sure) Therefore, there is still more testosterone (after the normal waiting period) than normal.

I hope this helps.
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Old 12-07-2005, 04:15 PM  
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Oh I see, thanks for clearing that up TxHorseMom!

But my question still goes unanswered... Ive been told and have read on a site (not sure how accurate it is though) that the undecended testicle is sterile. The one that is decended is fine though. How accurate is that?

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