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Old 09-08-2011, 09:24 AM  
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Strange Sores on Upper Lip? UPDATE: Summer Sores? Pics added

I went to see Elli last week and I noticed that she had a strange sore, just on the inside of the right side of her upper lip. She has always had a little bump there and I always just assumed it was some scar tissue and she had cut her lip sometime in the past. Now I'm not so sure. Now, the area where the bump is looks as though it has been scraped open. The wound doesn't bleed or weep fluid and doesn't seem sore when you squeeze it or poke at it.

Last night, when I went to see her, I noticed she had something very similar on the opposite side of her upper lip, just without the strange bump. What could these sores be? I am super confused. At first, I thought that she may have just caught the little bump on something while grazing and she scraped it open and it would just heal over. Well, it hasn't healed at all and now there's another one. Could it be little abscesses on her lips? Both sores are perfectly round and are pretty much exactly lined up with each other. Should I have a vet out to look at them? She is maintaining her weight fine so it doesn't seem to be slowing down her eating and, as I said, they don't appear to bother her when I'm poking and prodding at them.

I have not had a bit in her mouth almost at all so it's not anything from an illfitting or pinching bit for sure.

I'm at a loss. What the heck could this be from?

EDIT: Ok, I did some more googling and I came up with this thread

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-heal...es-lips-87075/

Her sores look EXACTLY like this! So it looks like they are summer sores! Has anyone had experience with these and can anyone give me some tips on how to clear them up?
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Last edited by Siren : 09-13-2011 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:42 AM  
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Ok ... further reading suggests a double dose of Ivermectin (she was getting Ivermectin this weekend anyways) and rubbing an anthelmintic directly to the site and I should use either Dichlorvos or Trichlorfon to treat ...

Thoughts? I am getting super worried now ...

EDIT: Talked to the vet who suggested NOT double dosing on Ivermectin and said that summer sores are not common in Canada and she isn't sure that's what they are. So now I'm doubly concerned and doubly confused. Those pictures of summer sores look identical to the sores Elli has ...
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:16 AM  
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Might be a long shot, but I have a TON of yellow jackets in my pasture. Any chance she was grazing, grabbed some grass and got stung?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:21 AM  
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Doesn't really look like a sting or bug bite. The sores are too big. They are about the size of a nickle and I think it would be strange to see two such uniformly circular sores on similar spots on the upper lip ...?
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:44 AM  
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Doesn't really look like a sting or bug bite. The sores are too big. They are about the size of a nickle and I think it would be strange to see two such uniformly circular sores on similar spots on the upper lip ...?
Are they being fed green feed. We had a bunch at the barn we were at that got green feed and got slivers from the barley... just a thought..I would suggest she has eaten something she reacted to...

I dont know if I would do the double dose ivermectin, either... dont believe thats what it is..
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:56 AM  
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i've always heard ivermectin and also rub some on the sores too. Is she close to other horses that are not on a good deworming program? Usually flies pick up stomach worm larvae from poop and land on a moist area where the larvae burrow in. But if all the horses around her are regularly dewormed and she is too it might be something else.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:58 AM  
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Can't they get sores like that from clover also?
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:49 PM  
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I don't know ... I had never heard of horses getting sores from clover ...



Elli's sore looks almost exactly like this one of a summer sore on another horse I found online. The little ridge around the outside ... there is a slight difference in that I think the older one of the sores looks a little more yellowish in the middle rather than red, but the new one does look red like that.

Elli is due to be dewormed, but I haven't been late on it or anything. I dewormed with panacur I think in about June. She is due for Ivermectin, but not overdue. I assume all the other horses are on good deworming schedules but I honestly can't tell you for sure. The barn owner expects that everyone takes care of that upkeep, but I don't think she does anything to enforce it. I know that I haven't heard anything from her about deworming and she hasn't asked me if Elli was done. Maybe some of the other owners aren't being as diligent as they ought to be? I don't know. It's hard to say with horses out in a big field like that ...

Vet said not to double dose on Ivermectin but to send her pictures of the sores and she will have a look and see if she can figure out what she thinks they are and go from there. So I will go see Elli tonight, deworm with Ivermectin (probably bring an extra tube just to rub some on the sores in case they ARE summer sores (I'm pretty sure they are)), and I will take some more pictures of the sore and post them here too.

This is so frustrating. I finally found a bit that I think will fit in her mouth but can't really use it for fear of aggravating the sores. First teething, then these sores ... this horse will do anything not to be started!!!! lol
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:30 PM  
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ask the vet about bot flies...they hatch out of the horses lips.
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Old 09-08-2011, 04:21 PM  
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ask the vet about bot flies...they hatch out of the horses lips.
Based on my description of the sores, the vet didn't think bot flies but hopefully the pictures I take later will shed some light and help her decide what they are. I am still thinking they are just summer sores and I'm crossing my fingers that some ivermectin will set things right again so I can continue her training. As I found out, you really can't ground drive a horse who's never been ground driven before in a halter ........ lol
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:17 PM  
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that does look like a summer sore and sometimes they look pussy and yellow. If you have a bunch of boarders out in the pasture that are on their own deworming program it's very likely that it's summer sores. Rarely is there a complete worm eradication at a barn so there will always be some exposure to worms. I'm not sure about your area but it's been very hot this summer and there are a lot of flies. It should only take a week or so after ivermection (oral deworming and rubbing directly on the sores) to see a lot of improvement.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:13 PM  
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lbeq, the photo isn't of Elli, her muzzle is nowhere near that big!

Alsike Clover toxicity can cause oral ulcers, as could an ulcer from a thistle or fox tails in the hay or when grazing.

If there used to be a bump there, then could it also be a cyst?

Could also be from a depressed immune system. have you taken her temperature?

I am not familiar with summer sores though.
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:22 PM  
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Did you check the pasture for toxic plants? Buttercups can cause sores much like that.
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:37 PM  
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I have been all over that pasture and, though I wasn't exactly looking, I have not seen anything resembling buttercups in the pasture. I got some pics last night, but my phone died so I haven't been able to upload them or send them to my vet, also, my camera is being difficult so ... Hopefully the ones from my phone will be good enough.

EA, I thought it might be a cyst too but then she got the second one that looks exactly the same on the other side where there is no bump? I guess I will see in the next couple of days whether the ivermectin is helping the sores heal. I bought some extra and smeared it on the sores, just in case. I wanted to go tonight but hubby is insisting on "date night" and said that going to the barn to smear dewormer on my silly horse does not consist of a "date" ... I argued but he didn't buy it. lol I will go tomorrow, Sunday and Monday to smear her sores again. I guess if they start healing, I'll know that they're summer sores and if they don't start healing I will have to keep looking ... ?
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Old 09-10-2011, 01:45 PM  
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Silly husband...

Hopefully they heal just fine. Do any other horses have them?
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:12 PM  
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I said he was silly too ... lol

No other horses have them that I have seen. Maybe Elli needs a powerpak or something a little "extra" for worms? She doesn't have runny poop, but her poop is 'looser' than other horses usually is. I attributed this mostly to her being strictly on grass. Could it mean that she needs a higher intensity deworming?
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:33 AM  
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I prefer to do a fecal before power packing them.

It doesn't cost much if you get the container from the vet and deliver the poop to them. At your last barn did they rotate wormers at all? I am thinking they only used Ivermectin, correct? It may be time to do something like Quest Plus, but I would wait until the nights are consistently below zero to ensure she won't pick anything new up before the dewormer. Consider to that if the new barn doens't have a deworming protocol, then dewormer resistant worms are more likely to be present for her to pick them up.

fecal counts will give you a better idea of what product to use.

I have had horses come here from barns that ALWAYS used ivermectin, or ALWAYS used Quest/Quest-Plus, and those horses have have worse worm issues than horses that came from places that hardly ever dewormed but at least rotated.
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Old 09-12-2011, 11:41 AM  
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THis is all very intersting to me.
I look forward to hearing what the vet has to say....
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:53 AM  
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Nope ... Laura's barn did a rotation. Even if she didn't, I never let anyone just worm Elli for me unless they tell me exactly what she's getting. I have my own rotation that I go by based on seasons and will only go with the barn rotation if it's already in line with what I'm doing (usually it has been ...). I did talk to the BO of the new place and she said that they do have a rotation but she didn't really clarify as to how she enforces it or if she does it herself or if she leaves it to horse owners ...??

I will try to get a fecal count done. My sister may be able to help me out on that one ... she works at an emergency vet clinic downtown that has the equipment to do a fecal test and she had mentioned once that she might be able to get it done for me at very little to no cost so ... I will have to try and pursue that. If I find out she has a higher than normal worm count and needs some extra help, I'll pursue things at that point.

As it stands, it's hard to tell if there's been any improvement in the sores. I THINK there has been some improvement on one of them, but didn't think I noticed any improvement on the other ........ Then again, it hasn't even been a week and I'm not sure how quickly I should be expecting any positive results ...
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:27 AM  
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Fortune has gotten summer sores for the pass 2 summers. I never had an issue with them till I moved to this new barn. I will say that the barn does lack good fly control. I try everything to deworming to putting stuff on the sore but it doesn't seem to fade till the weather starts getting cooler. Summer sores are more common in the hot humid states. The pictures you are posting are indeed summer sores.

Heres a pic of Fortune's summer sore which is now gone since it has gotten cooler.



http://horsehints.org/SummerSores.htm
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