Advice please!!!-more info

[JoesLove]

Okay so I have had my gelding since early january. Just moved to NC from FL, and he is settled in, etc. A month ago we had some good rides after I bought my new saddle..but then the week before the show (august 9) he started acting bad..like not wanting to go forward, rearing up a little, being a complete jerk! I rode him like 4 days that week and the next day I went to ride it would get worse. The day before the show he was absolutely HORRIBLE! I had to have a lady help me and he was being so bad she got mad and got on him and he gave her problems but shes a lot more experienced than I am, and more aggressive, and he finally gave into her. So I got on him again she worked me through it, things were ok. Next day at show I see how he does and he was OK not great just OK. I decided not to show because he was acting stupid. Ive ridden a few times since then and hes been ok. Not good just ok. And then I went to ride him today, lunged him first, had my friend get on him first because Im having her help me..he gave her some probelms but she got him going,etc. Then I got on and he refused to go forward, reared up a little bit like jerking his head/neck up to the point where eventually if he does this he'll get me in the face! So I was able to slowly get him to just walk forward but it wasnt easy. Im just FED UP! I feel like we just dont click. I need advice please! Im going to give him some more chances, I really dont want to sell him. Im going to pay this girl to help me. But how much longer should I give it? I dont want to sell him but I DO NOT want to own a horse I cant have fun on and that Im intimidated by. Hes a big boy, 16.2hand breeding stock paint. Also Im wondering, could he be in pain? When I was brushing him earlier and went towards his butt on his back he kicked out at me a bit! He never does this! Of course that just started the bad day. And he pees A LOT. On the day of the show between the hours of 7 to about 11ish he peed 5 times. Should I call the vet and see what they think? Please any advice. And please no cut downs, i feel horrible, Im not the type of person who just wants to throw their animals away, I want to give him more chances, I just want to be happy! Thanks everyone.


**The horse is 8 years old. I have never had such a time on him. I have been trying to be assertive and use a crop,etc. But i dont know it just gets frustrating. We used to do so much better a few months ago, and I have a better quality saddle now and when I bought the saddle we had some GREAT rides. Kept going past the gate, kept moving foward (but lazily! haha) and i felt so great that I could ride my horse! ( I had a bad kincade that was way too small for me). But now things just seem to be getting worse, and even with the people who ride him he gives them a bit of a hard time and doesnt seem to move like he used to. Also he seems to like to canter more..like its easier on him, and when trotting he seems to be holding his head higher, could this also be a sign? Its just odd to me! I havent had much experience with all of this, so sorry for all the questions, thanks. **

[texagal7]

that sounds to me like he is having some pain going on, I would have the vet come out and check him to see what is going on.

[gbarmranch]

First, have him vet checked for issues like a sore back, teeth, or any disease that may be effecting him - and make sure his sheath has been cleaned..

A poorly fitted saddle can hurt his back, shoulders, and/or kidneys.. and teeth issues can make them very touchy..

If he is sound and healthy, then it may be that he has figured out that you are more of a beginner rider and he can get away with things that he can't with a more experienced rider.. I would suggest lessons in that case, with your horse, so that you and he can learn to work together..

[tlcasel]

Wow, that really stinks. I'm pretty new to the horse world myself so I'll leave the "advise" to the experienced folks, but I think it's great you're giving him a chance to redeem himself with you. My neighbor has a similiar issue with one of her horses. He acts like an idiot when she gets on him to ride but when someone else gets on him he acts like a well trained fancy show horse. I can't wait to see what advise you get so I can share with her.... so, I'm jumping on board with your thread.

[JoesLove]

Well his teeth got done in january. He was seen by the chiropractor then too.. I bought this new wintec saddle and the lady that owns the tack store said he looks to fit him good (tack store is on property). Im just so frustrated. I mean if you put me on a horse that just goes I can ride well. I used to jump and stuff. But Im not that much of an aggressive person, and Ive been trying to get over my confidence problems but hes not helping! Thanks for the advice. Im going to try to find a good trainer. Ive been around horses for around 6 years now which I know isnt a whole lot, but also Ive only taken formal lessons for a total of a year. Time to start again!

[gbarmranch]

The new saddle still may have put his back out of alignment.. if you can, you may want to have the chiro check him again.. at least that way you will know for certain it is attitude and not pain..

Good luck with him.. I think you have half the battle won already in that you are not giving up - a good trainer may have you two working as a great team in a very short time..

[DappleGrayMyWay]

Sounds like he may have a residual pain issue that you might want to address. One chiropractic session eight months ago isn't going to still be in effect, and he could have rolled or kicked out and gotten himself all in a bunch. The saddle might be putting pressure on a sore place, no matter how good it fits, so have him evaluated for pain first. Also keep in mind that his feet could be the source of the problem, if his feet are crooked it makes his back hurt (that happened to my mare).

But, once you eliminate the pain stuff, you need to get assertive with him and make him ride out with you. Since other people can do it with him, you can too. It isn't that you're not a good enough rider, it's that you have trust issues with him. I think some ground work might help you develop your relationship with him, and some very simple riding exercises will help as well.

You're doing the right thing by asking for help and advice. Keep up the good work, don't let this get you down, and keep us posted

[horselady]

You did not mention how old this horse is.
perhaps he does not know as much as you think he does.
I would perhaps start with ground work and than start from the beginning with his riding also.
from walk, than trot, lots of trot,
Perhaps shorter sessions instead of long ones that can frustrate everyone.
I love the wintec saddles, but find sometime they are not forgiving and tend to not fit properly, try leather saddle with more room .
What kind of bit are you using?
all this has alot to do with the head tossing and rearing.
Good luck and hang in there, remember one step at a time and you both will benefit.

[kytrailrider]

if you eliminate the pain, then he has just fu\igured out he's got you buffaloed. My kid safe gelding (he's 20+) who normally is as sweet and well mannered of a horse that you can get, decided to pull one over on my daughter on the trail sunday. He didn't rear or anything just was tossing his head and refusing to go. I rode him back home. then she made him work in the pen. went back out, when she got a little ways from the barn he started again, so i had her make him work circles. After about 5 circles he quit and she rode him everywhere. Flexing and bending in circles can work wonders sometimes!!!

[rivervu2]

Sounds like a pain issue to me. I'd be most concerned about the kidneys because of his frequent urination. Before you get too frustrated or intimidated have the vet give him a good going over. I wouldn't ride him until that happens. If he's in pain that's the worst thing you can do.

[JoesLove]

Hey everyone, you all gave great advice! I will be calling the vet in the morning, and possibly the chiropractor. Thanks!

[gbarmranch]

Good luck and keep us posted..

[Carri]

I don't have any additional advice, but I hope you get it all worked out...

[NewtoMules]

Sounds like a bad saddle fit to me.

When did you buy the new saddle? When did he start acting like this?

A horse can go well in a bad fitting saddle for months before the muscles start to become too sore. I had the same issue with my mare. Bought a new saddle and 2 months later she was acting like a cow. I ended up having to go back to using my old saddle and after a week, she was fine again.

Bad saddle fit can be some horses get pretty nasty acting (rearing, bucking, kicking, etc.)

Just because the woman at the tack shop said it fit "okay" does not mean it does.

Does it leave dry spots after riding in it? The saddle should love a solid sweat pattern and NO dry spots.

[JoesLove]

Originally Posted by NewtoMules

Sounds like a bad saddle fit to me.

When did you buy the new saddle? When did he start acting like this?

A horse can go well in a bad fitting saddle for months before the muscles start to become too sore. I had the same issue with my mare. Bought a new saddle and 2 months later she was acting like a cow. I ended up having to go back to using my old saddle and after a week, she was fine again.

Bad saddle fit can be some horses get pretty nasty acting (rearing, bucking, kicking, etc.)

Just because the woman at the tack shop said it fit "okay" does not mean it does.

Does it leave dry spots after riding in it? The saddle should love a solid sweat pattern and NO dry spots.

It fits him and I better than the old saddle did, better quality saddle, he was pretty sweaty all over his back yesterday. I will have the lady look at it again, she owns the tack store, and has taken some saddle fitting classes I believe.

[EquineAlberta]

Saddle fit isn't an exact science. SOme horses like saddles that don't interfere with their shoulders (like most dressage saddles do) where as most don't care. Some horses like the longer pannels like Wintec's have, and some HATE the weight that far back.

I hope the vet and Chiropractor can help you out. It sounds to me like you have gotten in a bit of a frustrated downward spiral. Is there an other horse you can ride for a little while to boost your confidence and to have fun on? that might help you with your current horse.

Karen

[casnbug]

I'd have your saddle checked by a professional. I had bought a brand new wintec that fit my horse great for the first few months. Then one of my cair panels got a leak. You can't tell that the cair panel is flat/leaking without taking it out of the saddle. So essentially I had been riding him for months without any padding between my horse and the saddle tree. He was in pain and I felt awful. Turns out a lot of people have this problem with the wintec cair panels. I ultimately had them replaced with traditional wool flocking and had chiropractic work for the horse to put him back into place. I highly recommend getting rid of those cair panels asap. Good luck!

[A J]

I'd also have the vet do some bloodwork - if he's peeing excessively, I might question some type of kidney problem or other hormonal imbalance, which could explain a lot of the issues you are experiencing, including attitude, pain, etc.