Limiting Lesson horses

EquineAlberta · 09-24-2007, 11:39 PM

What do you think is a legitimate limitation to put on lesson horses with regards to how often they are ridden and how big they are allowed to jump (in lessons and at shows)?

We lease most of our lesson horses out so they have a consistent rider, and the lease riders seem to expect that they can compete with them and progress as they would on their own horse...I am happy to let them compete, but I am not sure I want my lesson horses jumping bigger than 2'6" on a regular basis as lesson horses tend to jump more often than a privately owned horse does.

Our lesson horses are typically ridden 5 days a week.

Many of our riders won't have the money to ever have their own horses though, and I don't want the parents to feel that I am pushing them to get their own horse (we don't want more boaders), but I don't want to wear out my lesson horses...what do you think is fair? What is a good way to explain this to the parents and to the kids that are being "held back" in this way?

Karen

**taelesean** · 09-25-2007, 12:05 AM

My old riding instructor's lesson horses were mostly ridden twice a day, probably 6 days a week - but not all of them were jumped.

I would think a 2'6" limit isn't a bad deal...but I also understand that a competitive rider might want to go higher. Perhaps you could have a few select horses that you would allow to be jumped higher, but limit the amount of jumping and teaching they do otherwise - of course, then you'd have to charge a little more for the lease.

Carri · 09-25-2007, 07:14 AM

I agree, on lesson horses that you are also still using for lessons, you will have to limit their jumping. Even more the amount of times per week they are jumped, than the height. If the horse is capable of jumping higher, the issue is more wearing them out and souring them by jumping every day, or even 5 days a week. We allow jumping 2, maximum 3 days a week, so they did not get sour. The last trainer we used only allowed jumping (on any horse, not just his) when he was present, so the kids were not practicing bad habits into the horse.

NHIceGSD · 09-25-2007, 07:24 AM

Most of our lesson horses were limited to 2'6 as well, and they could only do 2 flat/dressage lessons, 2 jumping and then a nice relaxing trail ride on Sunday! A good lesson horse is worth is weight in gold! I never minded taking it easy on them, they earn it!

paso_lover · 09-25-2007, 09:00 AM

I can not comment on the original post but what I can say is that my new horse was a lessons horse, mostly for beginers and one advanced rider. Boy do I have a lot of work cut out for me. He picked up some nice bad habits that will take me a while to correct. Be careful.

Slim Pikkens · 09-25-2007, 02:50 PM

Years ago at a stable, two riders part-boarding the same horse was common. Horse was allowed to be ridden twice daily for about an hour. When it came to jumping the boarders had to work it out between themselves as it was allowed only twice weekly. But, the stable owner had some good jumpers and would allow a long-time 1/2 boarder to practise on one of those under supervision to expand his/her skills.

tuffsmom · 09-25-2007, 03:01 PM

We limit our lesson horses and ours don't jump. We do not want the horses to get burnt out and get tired of their job. We have 2 old retired show horses that have been giving lessons since they were 6. One is 25 and the other is 21. (Both tried retirement and hated it.) A good lesson horse is very hard to replace.

Lopin · 09-25-2007, 07:34 PM

My lesson horses do not jump either, but they are limited to 2 lessons per day and they are used 4-5 days a week.

instigatorkate · 09-25-2007, 08:58 PM

I'll give you 2 scenarios that have worked for me:

1. At school the horses were ridden 6 days/week usually 2x/day, sometimes 3x. Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays they jumped. About 1 week a month we were allowed to jump higher than 2'6". No jumping during leasing or extra riding.

2. My school horses were ridden anywhere from 5-10x/week in lessons. Never jumped more than 2'3" in lessons. My group lessons tended to cycle through as 1 mostly flat, maybe pop over 5-10 jumps, 1 solid jumping lesson, and 1 fun lesson (trails, games, pony switch, bareback, etc). It was a loose schedule, but worked to makes sure the horses weren't jumping everyday. Most of the horses had a kid who half-leased them 3x/week. No jumping during lease rides, but they were encouraged to do poles to simulate jumping exercises without putting the strain on the horses. The kids who leased were eligible for my "boarder" lessons, which were more intense 75-90 minute group lessons with private time working on the flat and then some heavier course or gymnastic work. They were then allowed to jump to their and their horse's ability level, although we rarely worked super high.

I don't have any problem with you limiting the height you lesson horses can jump. They are YOUR horses, and if your kids can't afford their own horse, well too bad! If they want to ride your horses they need to play by your rules.

EquineAlberta · 09-25-2007, 10:43 PM

Thanks for the opinions.

Now I think I need to go out and tell my lesson horses how good they have it!

I have an odd assortment of horses, so other than my grey mare Tango, they aren't really well bred for jumping, so lots of jumping will wear on them. I know some of you live in areas where horses are cheap, but up here a decent sized horse that can jump 3 feet consistently is easily going to sell for over $6500.00...we just can't afford to buy horses like that...plus those aren't the ones that NEED us to buy them!

Hard to not feel badly for the kids who have worked through the levels and want to progress but don't have the $$$.

Karen

Mister's Mom · 09-26-2007, 08:13 AM

Hi Karen,
I know it is hard not to be able to provide for those kids that have progressed through the ranks. Perhaps you could establish yourself as a "begginer" barn and those who are truly ready to move up to bigger jumps can move on to another barn that is able to provide them with the horses they need. Maybe you could even try to work out a deal with another barn near you - you take on the begginers and then they move up to the "advanced" barn. Just an idea.

EquineAlberta · 09-26-2007, 11:54 PM

Yep, we are definately established as an intermediate level barn (show locally only). Not really a beginner barn as students do compete over fences and in dressage. But...we are very afforable for our area, so I think sometimes it is hard as parents can afford to give their kids more lessons and lease rides here then they would at another barn.

Hmmm...I think I see the problem; I am trying to accomidate people too much...I need to stick to what we want our barn to be!

I had thought about working with a beginner barn and a more advanced barn to create a better program...but the beginner barn doesn't want to give up their clients (holds them at a walk/trot level for ever and bad mouths all the other barns), and I can't find an advanced barn that my clients could afford and would enjoy. Riding competitively is crazy expensive here!

I am thinking the solution may be to encourage the students you want to move up to instead take on a project horse as a new challenge.

Karen

Eagles Nest · 09-27-2007, 01:55 PM

Well, I look at leased horses a few ways, one: they are a lease, and you know you are leasing a lesson horse, be considerate of how hard that horse works. 2: Be greatful someone is willing to lease you a horse, not all barns lease. 3: don't have crazy expectations. If you can't afford a horse that will take you to the level you want to go, then make do with what you have, grow up and get a great job so you can afford your goals.

While it's nice to be fair to kids, the horse comes first. I am getting REALLY tired of feeling bad for kids and parents that can't afford this business. They want to do it, they seem to afford what they want, but they can't afford a decent horse for their kid, or they want me to do stuff for free. I used to do a lot for free, help them buy horses without commissions, help pick out tack, take them to the store to buy clothes, help them pick out used clothes, etc...all for LESSON kids, not even training kids..

There is a reality in life, (I sure had to learn it as my parents were not well off) and that is life isn't fair, and if you want to play, you have to pay...You can pay by busting your butt and learning to be good so that people will let you ride THEIR nice horse, or you can pay by getting a job and actually paying, or you can just not have it...I'm done feeling bad as all that gets you is used....If I can't afford a Iphone, I don't get one, oh well for me....

The other thing to think of, is investing in a "step up" lesson horse. This is a problem for all barns, IMO, as it is hard to have horses that will teach beginners and more advanced riders, and if they can't do both, you have to have quite a few horses on hand. However one or two "middle" of the road horses, that are above the typical lesson horse, reserved for more costly lessons for the more serious student (not lease) can be a good deal. It is a hard spot to be in though as those horses are a mint...at least in my breed they are....25,000 for an academy (lesson) horse seems nuts to me....

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Say hello to my two new lesson horses!	harvest_moon	Meet the Horses	13	02-20-2007 12:47 PM
ApHC considering limiting registration on HYPP positives	ToveroMom	Breeding & Genetics	1	05-04-2005 01:54 PM

09-24-2007, 11:39 PM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 6,004	Limiting Lesson horses What do you think is a legitimate limitation to put on lesson horses with regards to how often they are ridden and how big they are allowed to jump (in lessons and at shows)? We lease most of our lesson horses out so they have a consistent rider, and the lease riders seem to expect that they can compete with them and progress as they would on their own horse...I am happy to let them compete, but I am not sure I want my lesson horses jumping bigger than 2'6" on a regular basis as lesson horses tend to jump more often than a privately owned horse does. Our lesson horses are typically ridden 5 days a week. Many of our riders won't have the money to ever have their own horses though, and I don't want the parents to feel that I am pushing them to get their own horse (we don't want more boaders), but I don't want to wear out my lesson horses...what do you think is fair? What is a good way to explain this to the parents and to the kids that are being "held back" in this way? Karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

09-25-2007, 12:05 AM
taelesean Administrator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,319	My old riding instructor's lesson horses were mostly ridden twice a day, probably 6 days a week - but not all of them were jumped. I would think a 2'6" limit isn't a bad deal...but I also understand that a competitive rider might want to go higher. Perhaps you could have a few select horses that you would allow to be jumped higher, but limit the amount of jumping and teaching they do otherwise - of course, then you'd have to charge a little more for the lease. __________________

09-25-2007, 07:14 AM
Carri Pasture Pet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia Posts: 13,649	I agree, on lesson horses that you are also still using for lessons, you will have to limit their jumping. Even more the amount of times per week they are jumped, than the height. If the horse is capable of jumping higher, the issue is more wearing them out and souring them by jumping every day, or even 5 days a week. We allow jumping 2, maximum 3 days a week, so they did not get sour. The last trainer we used only allowed jumping (on any horse, not just his) when he was present, so the kids were not practicing bad habits into the horse.

09-25-2007, 07:24 AM
NHIceGSD Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 819	Most of our lesson horses were limited to 2'6 as well, and they could only do 2 flat/dressage lessons, 2 jumping and then a nice relaxing trail ride on Sunday! A good lesson horse is worth is weight in gold! I never minded taking it easy on them, they earn it! __________________ Be Something You Love and Understand~ Lynard Skynard

09-25-2007, 09:00 AM
paso_lover Kid Safe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sudbury Ontario Canada Posts: 6,679	I can not comment on the original post but what I can say is that my new horse was a lessons horse, mostly for beginers and one advanced rider. Boy do I have a lot of work cut out for me. He picked up some nice bad habits that will take me a while to correct. Be careful. __________________ "Some people feel compelled to cut off the heads of others in order to make themselves appear taller" ---Paramahansa Yoginanda

09-25-2007, 02:50 PM
Slim Pikkens Seasoned Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,047	Years ago at a stable, two riders part-boarding the same horse was common. Horse was allowed to be ridden twice daily for about an hour. When it came to jumping the boarders had to work it out between themselves as it was allowed only twice weekly. But, the stable owner had some good jumpers and would allow a long-time 1/2 boarder to practise on one of those under supervision to expand his/her skills.

09-25-2007, 03:01 PM
tuffsmom Kid Safe Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 5,736	We limit our lesson horses and ours don't jump. We do not want the horses to get burnt out and get tired of their job. We have 2 old retired show horses that have been giving lessons since they were 6. One is 25 and the other is 21. (Both tried retirement and hated it.) A good lesson horse is very hard to replace. __________________

09-25-2007, 07:34 PM
Lopin Coming two Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Home of Brett Favre Posts: 1,751	My lesson horses do not jump either, but they are limited to 2 lessons per day and they are used 4-5 days a week. __________________ RIP Buz 4/16/89 - 6/17/09 When life gets you down - just put on your big girl panties and deal with it.

09-25-2007, 08:58 PM
instigatorkate Long Yearling Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,322	I'll give you 2 scenarios that have worked for me: 1. At school the horses were ridden 6 days/week usually 2x/day, sometimes 3x. Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays they jumped. About 1 week a month we were allowed to jump higher than 2'6". No jumping during leasing or extra riding. 2. My school horses were ridden anywhere from 5-10x/week in lessons. Never jumped more than 2'3" in lessons. My group lessons tended to cycle through as 1 mostly flat, maybe pop over 5-10 jumps, 1 solid jumping lesson, and 1 fun lesson (trails, games, pony switch, bareback, etc). It was a loose schedule, but worked to makes sure the horses weren't jumping everyday. Most of the horses had a kid who half-leased them 3x/week. No jumping during lease rides, but they were encouraged to do poles to simulate jumping exercises without putting the strain on the horses. The kids who leased were eligible for my "boarder" lessons, which were more intense 75-90 minute group lessons with private time working on the flat and then some heavier course or gymnastic work. They were then allowed to jump to their and their horse's ability level, although we rarely worked super high. I don't have any problem with you limiting the height you lesson horses can jump. They are YOUR horses, and if your kids can't afford their own horse, well too bad! If they want to ride your horses they need to play by your rules.

09-25-2007, 10:43 PM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 6,004	Thanks for the opinions. Now I think I need to go out and tell my lesson horses how good they have it! I have an odd assortment of horses, so other than my grey mare Tango, they aren't really well bred for jumping, so lots of jumping will wear on them. I know some of you live in areas where horses are cheap, but up here a decent sized horse that can jump 3 feet consistently is easily going to sell for over $6500.00...we just can't afford to buy horses like that...plus those aren't the ones that NEED us to buy them! Hard to not feel badly for the kids who have worked through the levels and want to progress but don't have the $$$. Karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

09-26-2007, 08:13 AM
Mister's Mom Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 627	Hi Karen, I know it is hard not to be able to provide for those kids that have progressed through the ranks. Perhaps you could establish yourself as a "begginer" barn and those who are truly ready to move up to bigger jumps can move on to another barn that is able to provide them with the horses they need. Maybe you could even try to work out a deal with another barn near you - you take on the begginers and then they move up to the "advanced" barn. Just an idea.

09-26-2007, 11:54 PM
EquineAlberta Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 6,004	Yep, we are definately established as an intermediate level barn (show locally only). Not really a beginner barn as students do compete over fences and in dressage. But...we are very afforable for our area, so I think sometimes it is hard as parents can afford to give their kids more lessons and lease rides here then they would at another barn. Hmmm...I think I see the problem; I am trying to accomidate people too much...I need to stick to what we want our barn to be! I had thought about working with a beginner barn and a more advanced barn to create a better program...but the beginner barn doesn't want to give up their clients (holds them at a walk/trot level for ever and bad mouths all the other barns), and I can't find an advanced barn that my clients could afford and would enjoy. Riding competitively is crazy expensive here! I am thinking the solution may be to encourage the students you want to move up to instead take on a project horse as a new challenge. Karen __________________ New Hillside Website The Art of Praise

09-27-2007, 01:55 PM
Eagles Nest Long Yearling Join Date: May 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,018	Well, I look at leased horses a few ways, one: they are a lease, and you know you are leasing a lesson horse, be considerate of how hard that horse works. 2: Be greatful someone is willing to lease you a horse, not all barns lease. 3: don't have crazy expectations. If you can't afford a horse that will take you to the level you want to go, then make do with what you have, grow up and get a great job so you can afford your goals. While it's nice to be fair to kids, the horse comes first. I am getting REALLY tired of feeling bad for kids and parents that can't afford this business. They want to do it, they seem to afford what they want, but they can't afford a decent horse for their kid, or they want me to do stuff for free. I used to do a lot for free, help them buy horses without commissions, help pick out tack, take them to the store to buy clothes, help them pick out used clothes, etc...all for LESSON kids, not even training kids.. There is a reality in life, (I sure had to learn it as my parents were not well off) and that is life isn't fair, and if you want to play, you have to pay...You can pay by busting your butt and learning to be good so that people will let you ride THEIR nice horse, or you can pay by getting a job and actually paying, or you can just not have it...I'm done feeling bad as all that gets you is used....If I can't afford a Iphone, I don't get one, oh well for me.... The other thing to think of, is investing in a "step up" lesson horse. This is a problem for all barns, IMO, as it is hard to have horses that will teach beginners and more advanced riders, and if they can't do both, you have to have quite a few horses on hand. However one or two "middle" of the road horses, that are above the typical lesson horse, reserved for more costly lessons for the more serious student (not lease) can be a good deal. It is a hard spot to be in though as those horses are a mint...at least in my breed they are....25,000 for an academy (lesson) horse seems nuts to me.... __________________ You earn your blue ribbons at home, you just pick them up at shows! Last edited by Eagles Nest : 09-27-2007 at 02:01 PM.