Registration Papers {dealing with an uncooperative breeder}

paige5785 · 06-04-2006, 02:35 PM

I bought a young horse back in December. His papers hadn't been sent off and when I sent them off, unthinking, I didn't even realize that I didn't have transfer papers. The breeder's name was on the papers so unfortunately the papers were sent to him (I didn't buy the horse from the breeder). I have contacted him about this situation and he told me that he would look for them and get back with me. I know he has them because I looked it up, but he hasn't gotten back with me about it. I'm not mad or anything I just kinda want the registration papers. Any advice on what I should do.

snickers · 06-04-2006, 02:40 PM

I can tell you what I would do.

I would call him and let him know I know he has the papers and that if he can not find them and get them to you with a tranfer in x amount of days, that you will be calling AQHA and let them know he wont give you the papers.
They dont tolerate this stuff and papers are to go with the horse.

Then I would let him know that you will follow through with small claims court.

I have delt with this for many years. Being nice at first and then taking it steps further.

He sounds like he is not going to give you the papers, and longer you wait, the more complicated it can get.

treasure1 · 06-04-2006, 02:52 PM

I agree with snick

Papers go with the horse

Shedaisy · 06-05-2006, 11:41 AM

I had a similar problem but it was through APHA and the last 2 owners were involved. They both insisted that it was the other person who had my papers and niether one would tell me the truth.
Finally, after threatening to go through APHA, my papers appeared. Funny how that happens!

Sassy · 06-05-2006, 12:03 PM

Oh yeah contact AQHA if you have any furture problems! Giving a dead line for the return of the papers is a great idea and a good place to start your stand! Good luck let us know what the results are!

Andy · 06-06-2006, 10:20 AM

In Canada the legal right to the papers has more to do with the federal pedigree act than the registries.
Any registered animal be it a horse, dog, or cat has to be accompanied along with its registration papers. It is a federal offence not to sign them over to anyone who buys the animal. It is also illegal to charge more money for an animal with papers than without. A seller does have 6 months to comply or be charged.
I found this out when I bought a horse at an auction in which the owner flashed the papers around but then refused to give them up. This was an estate sale so I contacted the lawyers and explained the laws to them and said my next call would be to the RCMP. That week I received not just my papers but others as well. The ones that didn't belong to me were forwarded to the appropriate registries.
Maybe there are similar laws in the U.S.

paige5785 · 06-07-2006, 02:32 PM

Thanks for everyone's reply. If I don't hear from him again I will contact him again and if he doesn't cooperate then I will contact AQHA.

Sheri Tarrant · 06-09-2006, 02:09 PM

I had a problem similar to yours, except that I bought an APHA colt from a local man, and was told that his papers would be in within 2 weeks....Never got the papers, xfer, and COULD NOT get his guy to return my calls. So, I knew who the breeder was and went to the stud owner, who put me in touch with the mare owner. Seems that this dude sold me a horse that he HAD NOT FINISHED PAYING FOR!!!

Anyway, the mare owner stated that there was "X" amount of dollars still owed on the colt, and if I wanted to keep him, I would finish paying for him (!?) Bear in mind here that I had already paid $3000 for this little guy to the guy that sold him to me. SO...I go ahead and pay this woman the amount she was seeking, was not much, so I figured, just nip it in the bud and get my papers. (see, SHE still had them, and HE was never going to get them until the colt was paid in full...HE LIED TO ME!) So, I give her the money, and get a receipt and letter from her that states that I will be receiving the registration papers to my boy within 6 weeks. (they still had to be sent off!). Next hing I know there is a Sheriff's officer calling me to "please call him back regarding the colt that I got from "So-N-So"'".
I call him, and he tells me that the dude that I bought him from has reported the colt STOLEN!!!! And that the lady who had come and collected MORE money from me was also stating the animal was not in the right person's posession!!

I produced all of my paperwork and receipts, and still was not able to prove anything other than that I had purchased the colt TWICE! I ended up giving him back to the breeder with a FULL refund, and filing fraud and theft by deception charges on the guy who sold him to me. I also filed civilly against the breeder. Won both cases. And APHA was SUPER interested in what had happened. Sent everything to them, documentation, etc, and as far as I know, their membership has been revoked. (or whatever it is that they do to punish the dishonest breeders)
Just be careful, and watch your hindquarters. I was very sad to see my little guy go back into a terrible situation. He was a good colt who was to make a SUPERB stallion!

paige5785 · 06-09-2006, 06:45 PM

WOW!! Sorry you had to go through all that. I would be EXTREMELY mad if something like that happened to me. Did you ever get him back?? And if you didn't are you going to?? Very interesting story!

snickers · 06-09-2006, 06:53 PM

If the papers are in his name, he can come and get the horse back.

I would be staying on top of this and not let any more time pass.

I would also go ahead and contact AQHA and tell them what has happened.

Did you get a bill of sale?

paige5785 · 06-09-2006, 06:57 PM

The papers are not in his name they are in my name but they are at his house all the way across the country. I'm in Florida and he's in North Dakota.

snickers · 06-09-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paige5785

I bought a young horse back in December. His papers hadn't been sent off and when I sent them off, unthinking, I didn't even realize that I didn't have transfer papers.

If you didnt have a transfer, how did you get them in your name?

If they are in yours, you can get a duplicate copy by telling AQHA that they were lost.

But without a transfer, I dont see how they are in your name.

TXCowGrl82 · 06-09-2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snickers

Quote:

Originally Posted by paige5785

I bought a young horse back in December. His papers hadn't been sent off and when I sent them off, unthinking, I didn't even realize that I didn't have transfer papers.

If you didnt have a transfer, how did you get them in your name?

If they are in yours, you can get a duplicate copy by telling AQHA that they were lost.

But without a transfer, I dont see how they are in your name.

Yeah, if they are in your name, they would be sent to you, not the breeder.

Horse_Orderly · 06-09-2006, 08:57 PM

I just went through this with my Paint. The horse was sold through another party who lost his papers and it took the old owner 5 months to get a transfer of ownership and affidavit for duplicate certificate! I kept going back and forth with the seller (who was trying her darnest to get this guy to cooperate!). APHA has cashed my checks so I expect the papers in my name soon!

06-04-2006, 02:35 PM
paige5785 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,257	Registration Papers {dealing with an uncooperative breeder} I bought a young horse back in December. His papers hadn't been sent off and when I sent them off, unthinking, I didn't even realize that I didn't have transfer papers. The breeder's name was on the papers so unfortunately the papers were sent to him (I didn't buy the horse from the breeder). I have contacted him about this situation and he told me that he would look for them and get back with me. I know he has them because I looked it up, but he hasn't gotten back with me about it. I'm not mad or anything I just kinda want the registration papers. Any advice on what I should do.

06-04-2006, 02:40 PM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 9,811	I can tell you what I would do. I would call him and let him know I know he has the papers and that if he can not find them and get them to you with a tranfer in x amount of days, that you will be calling AQHA and let them know he wont give you the papers. They dont tolerate this stuff and papers are to go with the horse. Then I would let him know that you will follow through with small claims court. I have delt with this for many years. Being nice at first and then taking it steps further. He sounds like he is not going to give you the papers, and longer you wait, the more complicated it can get. __________________ The "real" FACE of white trash is not here. http://diamondpfarm.webs.com/

06-04-2006, 02:52 PM
treasure1 Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South lyon, Michigan Posts: 904	I agree with snick Papers go with the horse __________________ RIP: Neverskiphercolor

06-05-2006, 11:41 AM
Shedaisy Halter broke Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 104	I had a similar problem but it was through APHA and the last 2 owners were involved. They both insisted that it was the other person who had my papers and niether one would tell me the truth. Finally, after threatening to go through APHA, my papers appeared. Funny how that happens! __________________ Shedaisy

06-05-2006, 12:03 PM
Sassy Started Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,340	Oh yeah contact AQHA if you have any furture problems! Giving a dead line for the return of the papers is a great idea and a good place to start your stand! Good luck let us know what the results are! __________________ A horse which stops dead just before a jump and thus propels its rider into a graceful arc provides a splendid excuse for general merriment. ~ DUKE OF ENDINBURGH ~

06-06-2006, 10:20 AM
Andy Newborn Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton Ont. CA Posts: 15	In Canada the legal right to the papers has more to do with the federal pedigree act than the registries. Any registered animal be it a horse, dog, or cat has to be accompanied along with its registration papers. It is a federal offence not to sign them over to anyone who buys the animal. It is also illegal to charge more money for an animal with papers than without. A seller does have 6 months to comply or be charged. I found this out when I bought a horse at an auction in which the owner flashed the papers around but then refused to give them up. This was an estate sale so I contacted the lawyers and explained the laws to them and said my next call would be to the RCMP. That week I received not just my papers but others as well. The ones that didn't belong to me were forwarded to the appropriate registries. Maybe there are similar laws in the U.S. __________________ El Samar Arabians www3.sympatico.ca/andy.hope

06-07-2006, 02:32 PM
paige5785 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,257	Thanks for everyone's reply. If I don't hear from him again I will contact him again and if he doesn't cooperate then I will contact AQHA.

06-09-2006, 02:09 PM
Sheri Tarrant Weanling Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 450	I had a problem similar to yours, except that I bought an APHA colt from a local man, and was told that his papers would be in within 2 weeks....Never got the papers, xfer, and COULD NOT get his guy to return my calls. So, I knew who the breeder was and went to the stud owner, who put me in touch with the mare owner. Seems that this dude sold me a horse that he HAD NOT FINISHED PAYING FOR!!! Anyway, the mare owner stated that there was "X" amount of dollars still owed on the colt, and if I wanted to keep him, I would finish paying for him (!?) Bear in mind here that I had already paid $3000 for this little guy to the guy that sold him to me. SO...I go ahead and pay this woman the amount she was seeking, was not much, so I figured, just nip it in the bud and get my papers. (see, SHE still had them, and HE was never going to get them until the colt was paid in full...HE LIED TO ME!) So, I give her the money, and get a receipt and letter from her that states that I will be receiving the registration papers to my boy within 6 weeks. (they still had to be sent off!). Next hing I know there is a Sheriff's officer calling me to "please call him back regarding the colt that I got from "So-N-So"'". I call him, and he tells me that the dude that I bought him from has reported the colt STOLEN!!!! And that the lady who had come and collected MORE money from me was also stating the animal was not in the right person's posession!! I produced all of my paperwork and receipts, and still was not able to prove anything other than that I had purchased the colt TWICE! I ended up giving him back to the breeder with a FULL refund, and filing fraud and theft by deception charges on the guy who sold him to me. I also filed civilly against the breeder. Won both cases. And APHA was SUPER interested in what had happened. Sent everything to them, documentation, etc, and as far as I know, their membership has been revoked. (or whatever it is that they do to punish the dishonest breeders) Just be careful, and watch your hindquarters. I was very sad to see my little guy go back into a terrible situation. He was a good colt who was to make a SUPERB stallion! __________________ ~ No hour of life is lost... That is spent in the saddle. ~ Winston Churchill ~Isn't it amazing the things we will do and endure...All for the love of horses~

06-09-2006, 06:45 PM
paige5785 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,257	WOW!! Sorry you had to go through all that. I would be EXTREMELY mad if something like that happened to me. Did you ever get him back?? And if you didn't are you going to?? Very interesting story!

06-09-2006, 06:53 PM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 9,811	If the papers are in his name, he can come and get the horse back. I would be staying on top of this and not let any more time pass. I would also go ahead and contact AQHA and tell them what has happened. Did you get a bill of sale? __________________ The "real" FACE of white trash is not here. http://diamondpfarm.webs.com/

06-09-2006, 06:57 PM
paige5785 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,257	The papers are not in his name they are in my name but they are at his house all the way across the country. I'm in Florida and he's in North Dakota.

06-09-2006, 08:57 PM
Horse_Orderly Started Join Date: May 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 2,318	I just went through this with my Paint. The horse was sold through another party who lost his papers and it took the old owner 5 months to get a transfer of ownership and affidavit for duplicate certificate! I kept going back and forth with the seller (who was trying her darnest to get this guy to cooperate!). APHA has cashed my checks so I expect the papers in my name soon! __________________ J.H.S. Jr 11/4/76-7/3/09 sailing calmer waters