What to do with problem horse?

[horsecrazygal]

My last rescue was severely beaten by a previous owner. I have almost no information on her history. The first time I tried to ride her, she bucked me off. She was fine for saddling, lunged under tack, and seemed fine when I first got on her. she responded to leg and started to walk when asked and was fine for about 10 minutes of walking and turning. Then out of nowhere she tensed up, took off bucking and off I went. After that, I decided to completely restart her and work on getting her to trust me. I have been working with her on the ground, using clicker training, taught her to ground drive, and have re-backed her using lots of treats for good behavior. I do not have the money to send her to a trainer, and at this point I really need to get her re-homed since I am having financial difficulties. I have tried offering her for free, but with things the way they are most people don't want a horse (well technically a large pony) that doesn't ride.

What should I do next? Should I try to teach her to ride or just focus on ground driving and try to sell or give her away as a driving prospect?

I've never seen her spook at anything on the ground, and in general she is very calm so she should make a good driving prospect except she really doesn't have the best trot. She trots like a Western Pleasure horse...

Any suggestions on getting her re-homed? Any suggestions on training methods I can try with her? She really is a sweet horse and I don't want to put her down after I saved her to begin with... I am just not sure how much longer I can keep her.

[Kingpin]

Around here there are any places to give a horse to that do all the work in finding them a good home. It is not like a dog shelter. See if you can find soeone like that to give good placeent to a horse that ay have some ore issues to work through. Good job for trying and resucing her.

[jjsimsez]

maybe try calling out a chiro. they are not expensive. you said she is calm. she may have a sore back. if you def are going to just rehome her. then id put ads everywhere. craigslist,H/T, horseville. get the word out.

[Horselady44]

Originally Posted by jjsimsez

maybe try calling out a chiro. they are not expensive. you said she is calm. she may have a sore back. if you def are going to just rehome her. then id put ads everywhere. craigslist,H/T, horseville. get the word out.

Yep. I second this. make sure there are no soundness issuiesthats causing her to act up....there may be a underlying problem And yes...def place ads on CL,HT,dreamhorse,horseville,horse clicks,equinenow, and place a ad or two in your local paper as well Im sure you will find her a home. You just got to advertize

[irishmusic]

I would get her under saddle - there is much more call for riding horses than for driving horses. Keep her head up to stop the bucking - sometimes an anti-grazing bit will help with that. Take her saddle retraining slow - once you have a couple of weeks of no-buck under saddle, then look to rehome her.

[Slim Pikkens]

I'm wondering how you know this horse was beaten by it's previous owner when you state you have no previous history on this horse. It sounds like this horse had figured out how to get out of being ridden by dumping the rider. When this happens many people will put the horse away as they are somewhat unnerved. Horse gets a huge reward for tossing the rider by being unsaddled and put away. Did you remount right away? The next time you ride and you feel the tension, pull her head around to your boot and hold her there until you feel her relax. Then ask her to walk again, repeating at least 3 times as that's how long it takes a horse to figure out cause and effect. When she will walk around your arena or paddock nicely for one complete circle, ride her to the middle and dismount and put her away. Try to do this 5 days in a row as horses learn by repitition. Don't ask for a trot at this time. Each day ask for more circles. Any time you are really pleased with her progress, put her away. Sometimes a 10 min session will accomplish more than an hour's worth.

[Horselady44]

Originally Posted by Slim Pikkens

I'm wondering how you know this horse was beaten by it's previous owner when you state you have no previous history on this horse. It sounds like this horse had figured out how to get out of being ridden by dumping the rider. When this happens many people will put the horse away as they are somewhat unnerved. Horse gets a huge reward for tossing the rider by being unsaddled and put away. Did you remount right away? The next time you ride and you feel the tension, pull her head around to your boot and hold her there until you feel her relax. Then ask her to walk again, repeating at least 3 times as that's how long it takes a horse to figure out cause and effect. When she will walk around your arena or paddock nicely for one complete circle, ride her to the middle and dismount and put her away. Try to do this 5 days in a row as horses learn by repitition. Don't ask for a trot at this time. Each day ask for more circles. Any time you are really pleased with her progress, put her away. Sometimes a 10 min session will accomplish more than an hour's worth.

This was my thought as well Slim...but she def needs to figure out IF there is something causing pain....if not...then there probably is a hole in her training. That was my first thought...but I think she should check out the horse first and make sure there isnt a underlying factor. Get a trainer out to work with the 'problem' horse. I dont think its the horse is a 'problem' horse...but a horse whos problem is from pain/lack of training.
So, first...get a chiro/vet out to make sure everything checks out %100 and then if it does...you know theres a training issue that needs worked on...I would get out a professional to help you.

[BornToRide]

If you've trained horses before, just think of her like any other. If pain is not the issue, then it's obviously just "I don't want to."

If that's the case, she's like the other horses in the sense that it's good to just work her through it A couple days of teaching her cause and effect (whether it be pulling her in a circle, tapping her with a riding crop, whatever you choose to teach her that the behavior is unacceptable), she may pick it up in no time & be good as gold

[horsecrazygal]

Slim Pikkens- I know she was beaten from her behavior on the ground and when worked. She used to be extremely headshy, flinchy, and nervous around people, but worse around men. She used to be difficult to catch, was terrified of the whip. I knew she had some training since she would lead, load, tie, lunge with tack, stand for the farrier etc. But it was obvious that she had been beaten with the whip, probably in the face. She was much calmer if I didn't lunge her with the whip.

I would never have climbed on her if I hadn't thought she was ready for it at that time- she was fine under tack on the lunge (no bucking), understood voice commands, was fine with my weight in the saddle, and once I was on she responded to leg and was walking and turning well. Then she took off bucking. I didn't see anything to spook at, she just seemed to panic/explode. I've ridden several horses that have bucked before this, but it felt like she already knew how to buck a person off. Once I was off, she wouldn't let me near her. I'm really not that scary! After I caught her we did lots of lunging, and I put weight on her back. I could tell she was still tense so I didn't get on. No point in getting bucked off a second time.

At this point I am just wondering if she will ever make a trustworthy riding horse? I really feel like this is a fear issue of something that was previously done to her.

[Mav2007]

My horse was scared of the whip too....but not because he was abused, it was because he wasn't trained and he was very reactive.

I think using past abuse as an excuse for present bad behavior shows that the horse hasn't been retrained properly.

Personally I think treat training leads to a pushy, spoiled horse and consequently you form bad habits without even trying.

This is all my opinion and you can take it for what it's worth. I would sell the horse as unbroke to someone who can restart the horse, disclosing the habits that you've noticed, but leave out the part about abuse since you can't substantiate it anyway.

[EquineAlberta]

I agree with Mav...the behaviour you describe does not indicate abuse...it could easily just be bad training or an over-reactive fear based horse. It could also be that the horse had one bad accident that has set in its personality. I had a horse to retrain this summer that bucked and bolted with its owner...we got the horse a massage and changed his tack and training approach and he was good to go. He wasn't abused, but an accident that resulted in him being caught and hurt in a fence made him leary of ropes and of feeling trapped...it would be easy to think he was beaten with ropes, but he wasn't!

I don't think you should advertise the horse as unbroke though...to me that means the horse is not started, which is easier to deal with than a horse that is/was badly started or who has had a bad experience.

You may find a trainer who wants a challenge to prove their skills; maybe you could find a trainer to help you sell her in exchange for half her selling price?

Karen

[Slim Pikkens]

I've seen horses react like yours because somewhere in their life they realize they can and it's worked in their favor. I've worked with people who's horses completely dominate them because the owners didn't realize that the gentle wonderful horses they bo't don't remain static. The horse will get away with a little of this, later a little of that and within a year there's a full blown problem horse. All too often when a horse gets away with something and I question the owner the response is too often "oh, that's ok." No, it's not ok. It's not the horse's decision.

[Mav2007]

Slim, that is so true in many, many cases. I spoke with a woman recently who admits her horses are treat spoiled, but "it's okay because we don't have to go catch them in the field to ride." Meanwhile, they are all biting and nipping at your hands, sleeves, and pockets constantly. Very annoying!

[Slim Pikkens]

crazyhorsegal, from what you've written you will not live long enough to persuade this horse to trust you. You need to show her that you are the dominant one. She is calling the shots because she is not respectful. Even if you are just leading her you need to push her around. Back her up, turn her away, back her up again. This puts her in a subordinate position by having you push her away. A lead mare does the same thing. Don't let her decide anything. Not one teeny thing so you will be constantly training. Move her shoulders, move her hindquarters, mix it up but keep it up. I wouldn't worry about riding just yet. The more groundwork you do now, the more it will pay off in the saddle. Get her bending her head around and moving her hindquarters as later this will diffuse bucking or rearing from the saddle.

[horsecrazygal]

I realize it is difficult to tell how much experience I have with horses based on my posts. I can tell the difference between a horse that is acting a certain way due to lack of training and one that has been abused. I am certain she was abused- I was trying not to write an essay on what lead me to that conclusion.

In no way is she pushy or disrespectful on the ground. She tends to be really shy and trys to avoid any interaction with me. Once caught she tends to shut down/freeze up and is unwilling/afraid to interact with me. I implement clicker training/variable reinforcement in order to encourage her to interact with me and to teach her to search for desirable behaviors. When I say she shuts down, what I mean is that she is reluctant to try any new behavior because she is afraid of getting into trouble. Even with clicker training she is extremely reluctant to try anything, although she wants the treat she is afraid to give any new reaction/behavior. I've worked with several abused horses before including one who was "flipped" and I've never met one that acts like her. Even with hours and hours of groundwork she is still very suspicious of people.

I've decided I'm going to continue with groundwork for the time being and hope the right home will come along.

[michlar]

HAve you tried "join up"? I am not personally a big fan of clicker training...we have a woman who thinks she is a big horse person who is actually teaching it to others now and what a gong show. Her horse is just a pig, with horrible ground manners who will not do anything unless treated. It is ridiculous. I had issues with our first gelding, he has some big time wierd things going on in his brain. He would freeze but he also learned quickly how to manipulate situations for his best outcome too. Lots of ground work and lots of learning I was in charge helped that out tremendously. When he respected me and knew I was in charge, no more of the refusing because he knew he had to work. There were other issues with him that came up and we had to send him back but his attitude was very different when he went back. Could you maybe go and watch a trainer and ask some questions? I know you cannot afford one but I know I learn lots from watching others and asking questions. I know even my nice quiet mare can be a jerk for someone if she thinks she can get away with it. Of course her manners are good,( her trainer was amazing) she will just refuse to walk or try to toss her head when they are riding. She is an excellent actress.

[bubbleslove]

I would definitely get her checked out for chiropractic problems first - I'm going through this right now, and there is something to say for how feeling bad will make a horse act out. Also - does your saddle fit well? I mean, off her withers, no bridging, not bumping her in the back? Have her teeth been done? You want to make sure there are no pain issues whatsoever before you write her off as a bucker.

If she checks out that way, then she's just going to have to have enough rides on her where she's not able to buck someone off. That means getting on quickly, and making her walk off immediately in a tight circle until she's relaxed enough to continue on your ride. We have a horse at our barn going through training for the same issue, and after three weeks, he's still very tense after being mounted, but relaxes more and more quickly. If the trainer feels him tensing up later in the ride, back into a tight circle until he's relaxed again.