Shanking opinions

[Jumpwhat09]

I am writing an argumentation paper about whether shanking is ok or isnt. My views are that if done properly and only to apply pressure instead of yanking on the face i believe its ok cuz it is a learning tool....however, i need to find statistics for it. Is there anyone who knows where to find statistics for this controversy?

[alliebath]

What's shanking?

[Horse poor]

The only shanking I know of is done in prison. What is it?

[barnmom]

We put a "shank chain" on Weeg when he gets a bath because he can be obnoxcious and jus a pain in the behind, it goes over his nose and we just give it a pull to get his attention. I feel there is nothing wrong with it. We also use it on the stud colts at the barn and horses that try to run you over and not listen. Some need a harder yank than others than they get the point and the noise works just as well.

[greygirls]

Originally Posted by barnmom

We put a "shank chain" on Weeg when he gets a bath because he can be obnoxcious and jus a pain in the behind, it goes over his nose and we just give it a pull to get his attention. I feel there is nothing wrong with it. We also use it on the stud colts at the barn and horses that try to run you over and not listen. Some need a harder yank than others than they get the point and the noise works just as well.

So is it just a chain over the nose??? If so, I see nothing inhumane with the practise if it's used correctly. There is one horse at work who will be walking along fine & then suddenly he pulls out of your hands (leaving you with horrible rope burn) for no reason other than he decided he'd like to go somewhere else. He's not spooking, or balking or anything like that. He just thinks he should get to choose where he goes, not the handler. We put a chain over his nose (& wear gloves). This guy is the only horse to ever leave a permanent scar on me & it was because of this behaviour.

[kanoo32]

I use a shank on every horse in my care....better safe than sorry. A shank is much like a bit IMO, it is the hands of the person holding it that is the danger not the actual shank itself!!

[barnmom]

That's the only way we use it, I have seen it used hooked to the halter than ran inside the upper lip and out the other side. I have never used it like that and I don't really think that level of pain is necessary to get your point across.

[WestCoastRambler]

At my job I often have to resort to it, as I'm handling boarded horses that aren't mine and are generally owned by people who would rather use harsher methods than actually spending the time to work with their horse (I'm sure if they could make us tack their horses up for them they would ). I only have about 5 minutes to handle a difficult horse during turnout and therefore the priority is my own safety. I'll use a shank if necessary but make it my goal to eventually not need it.

Of course when the owners/trainers continuously let the horse get away with murder my work often just isn't enough to improve his behaviour. He'll get worse and worse, and once they start resorting to lip shanking (running the chain under the top lip over the gum line) I refuse to handle the horse.

All that aside, when shanking is used responsibly and not just as a band-aid fix because you're unwilling to use a less aggressive, but more time consuming method, then it's fine by me. Horses are much much bigger and stronger than us, and when they overcome the fight/flight response and turn to aggression, the point needs to be made VERY clear what's acceptable and what's not (without turning into abuse).

[Horselady44]

I agree...a shank is a safty device and it should be used correctly...and if it is then there is nothing inhumane or wrong with it. In the wrong hands yes...it could be inhumane and could hurt the horse very bad...if someone uses one, they should know how to use it and when to use it IMO.
To to OP...Im not sure where you could get statistics for it... as its mostly about opinions. Good Luck! and if you find anything online, post the link on here so we can read about it also.

[Slim Pikkens]

I prefer to use a knotted halter and at least a 10' lead, preferably 12. By holding the lead approx 3-4' from the halter one can better control the horse. If he were to bolt I'd brace myself and when he hits the knots he'll turn and swing his butt away. If a horse doesn't stand as requested I'll drive the hindquarters in circles, tapping in front of the hip with either a 4' stick or the lead rope. When he wants to stop, I stop with the rope and proceed with whatever I was doing. I repeat until he decides it's easier to stand than move his butt.

[EquineAlberta]

I prefer using a rope over the nose over a chain or rope halter (I greatly dislike the severity of pressure a rope halter puts along the pole/spine). I find that the rope "shank" over the nose gets the point across, without worrying the horse so much, or getting its adrenaline up.

I do not think people are cruel that use a chain over the nose/under the chin, I just do not find it to be as effective as a rope as I find in most cases it is harsher than it needs to be.

The only reason/time I can ever seen the need for using a chain in the mouth/along the gums would be a life or death moment.

Karen

[singing tree]

I guess in a sense that Monty Roberts dually halters use this "shanking" principle, only with a nylon rope instead of a chain. I have one that I use all the time since the option is right there without having to get a different lead out if a horse is not cooperating. Where it worked the best for us was when my daughter was trying to lead our aged, smart foxtrotter, who figured out that she did not know how to get him to move. The dually got the message across, and he became much more compliant with it.

[qtrhorse1993]

i have only ever used a chain on my stud twice, he is 17...in the wrong hands it is a dangerous weapon. unfortunatly not every horse learns that quick or remembers the lesson, neither do the owners. i have never put one under a lip, to me that is cruel, at that point the horse learns absolutely nothing, but pain induced agression or fear.

[Sirita_88]

Well if a shank is a chain.. I rarely use it over the nose, but sometimes, depends on the situation, really. But If shanking is considered under the chin, too I use it for showmanship. What I do with the chain under the chin gives a horse a signal to move which foot, when to back, pivot, etc without a lot of pressure. Of course you could do it without a chain, but it would be more confusing for the horse because how do you tell it Move your left front foot forward? My horse can do it, he just gets confused more often...

[fishing_trex]

I'm like Slim and prefer the knotted halter. However, when we bought are new gelding and the vet came for the first time, knotted halter or not, he wasn't going to let her near him with that needle. He drug three of us all over. So we shanked him with a lip chain the first time, then over his nose the second time, and now we don't need it at all.

If it's a matter of safely, I'll use one. But I agree they have to be used correctly. I have a neighbor with a huge warm blood gelding and she jerks on it pretty much all the time. I've always been taught that you should let the horse do the jerking (thus causing themselves pain) instead of jerking on it all the time yourself...

[visionquest]

I've been known to "SHANK" a horse with a quick jerk of the lead rope and I did not have a chain or a rope over the nose. I've only been forced to use a rope or progressed to a chain over the nose when the horse chose to ignore the light shanking with just his halter using the lead rope alone. Many of the horses that board here or come in for training have not been properly train to lead so I need to use a rope over the nose for a little extra control until they learn to respect their halter, be it leather, nylon, or rope halter. I only go for the chain if there if a real safety issue while leading the horse.

You ALWAYS use the progressive pressure steps instead of going straight to shanking hard. many good horses have been made to get defensive when the wrong amount of pressure has been used for a minor offense. When this happens things escalate to harder and harder shanking to putting the chain over the gums for control and then you've lost control all together.

[ahabarabs]

This matter is highly subject to breed/activity/etc. related, a chain and/or lip chain, when used with knowledge, and competence, are common, and often needed practices, before I became actively involved with tb's ( racing tb's ) and handling/breeding, tb/arab studs, I thought that lip chains were basically an unnecessary tool, I thought that they were more or less unneeded usage of force ( although I did not ever consider them "horrible" ) this was just ignorance on my part as they really act like a "walking twitch" it has many of the same properties of how a twitch works without having the "freezing up" that a twitch will cause, therefore horse can be mobile, a lot of horses, especially tb's when going to gallop, or especially when going to race will become very "high" dangerously so, and are very capable of rearing/flipping/striking/etc. etc. and a lip chain keeps them somewhat controlled ( usually ) for their own, and everybody elses safety, tb's also do not allow A-I with breeding, it is live cover only, ( for a Jockey Club baby that is ) and often for the handlers/mares/ and stud's safety, a lip chain is often needed/used, as breeding tb studs, can quite often be an extremely dangerous, and breeding needs to be done as safely as possible, when your talking about large businesses with multiple stallions, some with stud fees sometimes in the 100k, and up range, with lots of mares coming to each, there is no place, or time for "games" .


As far as chain over the nose, it needs to be shown how to properly use, I have seen people that did not know think they need to walk/lead horse with a constant downward pressure on the chain, which is very, very, wrong as they need to have NO PRESSURE put on the chain, until it is needed, and then it needs to be quick, and short, just pop, pop, ( with varied force, dependant on situation of course ) otherwise if constant horse will just start to "tune out" the chain, and it will not be of much use, unless used with so much force, .


That all said there are many,many, horses, especially non-hot types, that do not, will not, ever need a chain used on them at all.

[rivervu2]

Originally Posted by ahabarabs

This matter is highly subject to breed/activity/etc. related, a chain and/or lip chain, when used with knowledge, and competence, are common, and often needed practices, before I became actively involved with tb's ( racing tb's ) and handling/breeding, tb/arab studs, I thought that lip chains were basically an unnecessary tool, I thought that they were more or less unneeded usage of force ( although I did not ever consider them "horrible" ) this was just ignorance on my part as they really act like a "walking twitch" it has many of the same properties of how a twitch works without having the "freezing up" that a twitch will cause, therefore horse can be mobile, a lot of horses, especially tb's when going to gallop, or especially when going to race will become very "high" dangerously so, and are very capable of rearing/flipping/striking/etc. etc. and a lip chain keeps them somewhat controlled ( usually ) for their own, and everybody elses safety, tb's also do not allow A-I with breeding, it is live cover only, ( for a Jockey Club baby that is ) and often for the handlers/mares/ and stud's safety, a lip chain is often needed/used, as breeding tb studs, can quite often be an extremely dangerous, and breeding needs to be done as safely as possible, when your talking about large businesses with multiple stallions, some with stud fees sometimes in the 100k, and up range, with lots of mares coming to each, there is no place, or time for "games" .


As far as chain over the nose, it needs to be shown how to properly use, I have seen people that did not know think they need to walk/lead horse with a constant downward pressure on the chain, which is very, very, wrong as they need to have NO PRESSURE put on the chain, until it is needed, and then it needs to be quick, and short, just pop, pop, ( with varied force, dependant on situation of course ) otherwise if constant horse will just start to "tune out" the chain, and it will not be of much use, unless used with so much force, .


That all said there are many,many, horses, especially non-hot types, that do not, will not, ever need a chain used on them at all.

Well said. It depends on the circumstances and has a lot to do with the breed. I learned how to handle TBs on the track where a chain is necessary. I've also handled studs in the breeding shed and wouldn't think of breeding without one. I've used a chain to keep a young horse's attention on me during training, vet and farrier visits. The force used is equal to the misbehavior of the horse. I've almost had my head kicked in by a spoiled stallion who then learned that was a bad idea. He learned to respect me that day and we never had a problem from then on. In 30 years I've never injured a horse with a chain but have used one frequently. I was always the one who had to hand-walk the WBs on layup because I could keep them from reinjuring themselves, with the help of a chain. Some breeds, especially when fit, are quite rank to handle. Just spend a few days on the backside of the track! Some breeds, as previously posted, are more mellow and rarely need one.

[irishmusic]

A shank is a necessary evil. When my OTTB mare was stalled for 4 months due to an injury, she walked on her hind legs the first day that I handwalked her outside. Thank God for the shank! I was able to remind her who was in charge, bring her back down to earth and keep her from re-injuring herself.

[Jumpwhat09]

thanks everyone for the responses, and yea i know the feeling..my horse has been on stall rest for 2 months with a suspensory ligament injury, and the shank is the only thing that keeps him walking and not taking off to the moon.