Quirk of the Day - (frustrated)

enigma · 10-29-2009, 09:29 AM

So, we got this resale project. My daughter has decided she really likes her. Good so far. I need to ride her out to make sure she's good enough on trails to pack a kid. But she's either super-smarter-than-you, or she's brain damaged.

The lady delivered her. That day, she had no concept of personal space, refused to give to the halter. The next day, she was perfect. Feet, tacking, etc. The NEXT day, she wouldn't give any of her feet to the farrier.

The next day, "me and my good friend rope" spent a good hour working on the whole "pick up your darn feet when asked" process. She acted like she got it. The next day, I explained to her that I won't have a horse that can't be tacked and handled in the stall. We worked on feet again. Perfect. The next day, we had a different farrier come in, told him she was "difficult" and he laughed when he left and said he'd love to have more difficult horses just like her. And the list goes on. She has spun into me, knocking me down. Has reverted, choosing a different foot not to give each time. I finally offered to kill her with my baseball cap.

Really "over-and-undered" her (if you can DO that with a hat....) and told her she got manners or was going into a can.

She had the next foot UP AND WAITING FOR ME that day and the next day. (Huh - maybe the can threat worked....) Has refused the bit at feeding time. Wasn't going to be led out of the stall to the ring. Has done the head-over-the-human thing, which I consider *extremely* poor manners. Has pushed out the stall door when it was opened. Has has kicking fits in the stall if I'm talking to the wrong horse. She also won't look directly at you, which makes me wonder about her background.

I've made a point of NOT letting her win with any of these things. But it seems like there's always something new, or she's trying something different. She's an opportunistic little thing, for certain.

She has been a rock under saddle, hasn't taken a wrong step with me or with my kid. Not sure my kid is going to be able to handle her on the ground, though. She's just not compliant.

Is this part of the normal breaking-in and knocking off the rough edges part of settling in and getting used to a new place? I've never seen anything like it, and it's NOT predictable.

Aside from offering to kill her with my hat, and making sure that she DOESN'T get away with stuff, is there anything else I should be doing? How long would you expect it to take for all this crap behavior to be extinguished, and for us to have a nice, well-mannered little girl?

Maybe this should be in training. If so, mods, please move it.

qtrhorse1993 · 10-29-2009, 09:33 AM

sounds like she was imprinted on as a baby?? the poor ground manners kinda give her away, it will just take time to get her to learn a new behavior.

enigma · 10-29-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qtrhorse1993

sounds like she was imprinted on as a baby?? the poor ground manners kinda give her away, it will just take time to get her to learn a new behavior.

REALLY? THAT's what imprinting does? HOW?

dunamovin · 10-29-2009, 10:42 AM

She's testing you. Trying to find your weak spot. Probably sensed with the farrier that she couldn't get away with anything. Just keep after her. Like disciplining a bratty child. When she does something you don't like make her move. Get her little hoofies moving, moving, moving. She sounds very intelligent and will probably be the best horse you've ever had once you come to an understanding that YOU ARE BOSS.

beth55051 · 10-29-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma

REALLY? THAT's what imprinting does? HOW?

Done wrong yes. Done right, which is rarely the way it's done, never.

But it does sound to me like she's testing you and pushing your buttons. She may just be a pushy/bossy kind of mare that really needs to know who the real leader of the herd is.

ruffian · 10-29-2009, 10:55 AM

Can't comment on the imprinting thing, but sounds like she needs consistency day in day out (which is what you are doing)
She has to see you as the leader of the herd, that ultimately she will respect you and trust you to keep her safe.
A quick (and severe as is warranted for the offense) correction each time and then move on as though nothing happened. It can be tough to keep the emotion out of this but she has to see the consequence as a direct result of her actions and nothing more. Because of this a kid might have a hard time remaining consistent and calm enough. Probably lots of ground work, lunging, driving, leading round pen, what ever you prefer to reestablish who is boss on the ground (my personal pet peeve is when they can't lead without moving into your space)
Sometimes I wonder if some horses have ADHD, you get days when they are space cadets and others when they are rock solid. For this personality type I have found that feed (two much, too high in sugar) can have a huge impact on their mental state.

IdelleArab · 10-29-2009, 11:24 AM

I agree with the others - she sounds like a little mongrel...

"Imprinting" can be done wrong. I have a breeder friend (well, she doesn't breed anymore. But raised horses a LONG time. She had never done imprinting before, but when she retired, she did on a filly she had. She turned into a beast of a mare. Sweet as can be, but would push you around, spin and kick - just very disrespectful.

It's one thing to teach them to accept touching all over, but it's another to have them all over you.

It sounds like she needs to know you're in charge. I wouldn't let her walk to you, stop her before she gets to you and then walk the rest of the way. All my horses are taught to wait until I AM READY before exiting their stalls. If they move forward, I push them back and make them wait longer. It may take a tap of a crop or something (I'm not saying beat her, but one nice 'attention getter' may be in order)

I bet once she knows her place, she'll be a wonderful horse to have around the barn.

enigma · 10-29-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdelleArab

I agree with the others - she sounds like a little mongrel...

Yep!

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdelleArab

All my horses are taught to wait until I AM READY before exiting their stalls. If they move forward, I push them back and make them wait longer. It may take a tap of a crop or something (I'm not saying beat her, but one nice 'attention getter' may be in order)

Did I mention the hat? LOL. And I'm not opposed to beating them with the hat. It won't actually hurt them, but several have been very surprised. It's more a question of what she's doing is so unpredictable. I would expect that she knew what to do with the feet. Then, the next day, she swore she didn't. Had never been door-pushy before. Then suddenly was. So, it's not like there's the ONE behavior that I can "fix" and have it be done with. They're all over the place, and it changes constantly as far as what she pretends to know, and what she thinks might slide by.

With the not accepting the bit, I decided I was prepared to spend the night with her if I needed to.... Put a cookie behind it, finally. Make the right thing easy, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdelleArab

I bet once she knows her place, she'll be a wonderful horse to have around the barn.

I devoutly hope so.....

enigma · 10-29-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffian

It can be tough to keep the emotion out of this but she has to see the consequence as a direct result of her actions and nothing more. Because of this a kid might have a hard time remaining consistent and calm enough.

Ah, and not-intimidated enough..... *I* can get in the middle of her with no problem. My daughter is concerned that she can't control her and that she'll get hurt. And she probably would right now. And I KNOW I need to work with her on some techniques. Like hard elbow to the chest if she's coming out behind you - you don't turn and put two hands on the chest and push back, because I'll lay money that the draft cross'll win THAT one every time....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffian

Probably lots of ground work, lunging, driving, leading round pen, what ever you prefer to reestablish who is boss on the ground (my personal pet peeve is when they can't lead without moving into your space)

She works for me very well, very obedient. You pick the area, she works well.

In the barn, though...... not so much....

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffian

Sometimes I wonder if some horses have ADHD, you get days when they are space cadets and others when they are rock solid. For this personality type I have found that feed (two much, too high in sugar) can have a huge impact on their mental state.

Under saddle, her personality is pretty willing and honest. She's on grass hay, half a tumbler of alfalfa pellets, and less than a tumbler of diet balancer, and she gets that twice per day. She has lost a little weight since she got here, and is looking about right to me, now. That's about the same type of feed (different brand) she was getting with the previous owner.

bubbleslove · 10-29-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma

Did I mention the hat? LOL. And I'm not opposed to beating them with the hat. It won't actually hurt them, but several have been very surprised.

Actually, careful with the hat...it's surprisingly easy to get them terrified of hats. My friend just bought a Paso that I guess was cowboyed a little bit. He came with one warning "Do NOT ride him with a hat, and if you must, do NOT take it off or touch it in anyway while riding". Someone beat him with a hat, so if you go to reach for it, he'll bolt, buck, rear, basically go bonkers until you and the evil hat are off his back! It's kinda funny and sad at the same time

enigma · 10-29-2009, 12:35 PM

LOL -- good to know.

Arrow · 11-01-2009, 07:09 PM

I kind of think your little pony only has one "problem". And that is that she is too smart for her own good. Typical pony. She's bossy and intelligent, and she has quite a bag of games. You know, if Game A doesn't work today, maybe B will. And tomorrow A might work.

Give her a bit of time to learn that none of her games work with you. She's smart, she'll figure it out.

Horselady44 · 11-01-2009, 07:25 PM

It sounds to me like shes testing you to see what she can get away with. Just stay consistant. She sounds like a good horse...just seeing what she can get away with

Most all horses will do that to some extent when you first get them home. Just stay consistant and you will work out the quirks Im sure

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10-29-2009, 09:29 AM
enigma Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,272	Quirk of the Day - (frustrated) So, we got this resale project. My daughter has decided she really likes her. Good so far. I need to ride her out to make sure she's good enough on trails to pack a kid. But she's either super-smarter-than-you, or she's brain damaged. The lady delivered her. That day, she had no concept of personal space, refused to give to the halter. The next day, she was perfect. Feet, tacking, etc. The NEXT day, she wouldn't give any of her feet to the farrier. The next day, "me and my good friend rope" spent a good hour working on the whole "pick up your darn feet when asked" process. She acted like she got it. The next day, I explained to her that I won't have a horse that can't be tacked and handled in the stall. We worked on feet again. Perfect. The next day, we had a different farrier come in, told him she was "difficult" and he laughed when he left and said he'd love to have more difficult horses just like her. And the list goes on. She has spun into me, knocking me down. Has reverted, choosing a different foot not to give each time. I finally offered to kill her with my baseball cap. Really "over-and-undered" her (if you can DO that with a hat....) and told her she got manners or was going into a can. She had the next foot UP AND WAITING FOR ME that day and the next day. (Huh - maybe the can threat worked....) Has refused the bit at feeding time. Wasn't going to be led out of the stall to the ring. Has done the head-over-the-human thing, which I consider extremely poor manners. Has pushed out the stall door when it was opened. Has has kicking fits in the stall if I'm talking to the wrong horse. She also won't look directly at you, which makes me wonder about her background. I've made a point of NOT letting her win with any of these things. But it seems like there's always something new, or she's trying something different. She's an opportunistic little thing, for certain. She has been a rock under saddle, hasn't taken a wrong step with me or with my kid. Not sure my kid is going to be able to handle her on the ground, though. She's just not compliant. Is this part of the normal breaking-in and knocking off the rough edges part of settling in and getting used to a new place? I've never seen anything like it, and it's NOT predictable. Aside from offering to kill her with my hat, and making sure that she DOESN'T get away with stuff, is there anything else I should be doing? How long would you expect it to take for all this crap behavior to be extinguished, and for us to have a nice, well-mannered little girl? Maybe this should be in training. If so, mods, please move it. __________________ There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. ~ Winston Churchill Last edited by enigma : 10-29-2009 at 09:32 AM.

10-29-2009, 09:33 AM
qtrhorse1993 Yearling Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johnstown, New York Posts: 707	sounds like she was imprinted on as a baby?? the poor ground manners kinda give her away, it will just take time to get her to learn a new behavior. __________________ The world meets no one half way, but your horse will meet you all the way.

10-29-2009, 10:42 AM
dunamovin Halter broke Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: where the blacktop ends Posts: 194	She's testing you. Trying to find your weak spot. Probably sensed with the farrier that she couldn't get away with anything. Just keep after her. Like disciplining a bratty child. When she does something you don't like make her move. Get her little hoofies moving, moving, moving. She sounds very intelligent and will probably be the best horse you've ever had once you come to an understanding that YOU ARE BOSS.

10-29-2009, 10:55 AM
ruffian Long Yearling Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,161	Can't comment on the imprinting thing, but sounds like she needs consistency day in day out (which is what you are doing) She has to see you as the leader of the herd, that ultimately she will respect you and trust you to keep her safe. A quick (and severe as is warranted for the offense) correction each time and then move on as though nothing happened. It can be tough to keep the emotion out of this but she has to see the consequence as a direct result of her actions and nothing more. Because of this a kid might have a hard time remaining consistent and calm enough. Probably lots of ground work, lunging, driving, leading round pen, what ever you prefer to reestablish who is boss on the ground (my personal pet peeve is when they can't lead without moving into your space) Sometimes I wonder if some horses have ADHD, you get days when they are space cadets and others when they are rock solid. For this personality type I have found that feed (two much, too high in sugar) can have a huge impact on their mental state. __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

10-29-2009, 11:24 AM
IdelleArab Newborn Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Southeast Posts: 29	I agree with the others - she sounds like a little mongrel... "Imprinting" can be done wrong. I have a breeder friend (well, she doesn't breed anymore. But raised horses a LONG time. She had never done imprinting before, but when she retired, she did on a filly she had. She turned into a beast of a mare. Sweet as can be, but would push you around, spin and kick - just very disrespectful. It's one thing to teach them to accept touching all over, but it's another to have them all over you. It sounds like she needs to know you're in charge. I wouldn't let her walk to you, stop her before she gets to you and then walk the rest of the way. All my horses are taught to wait until I AM READY before exiting their stalls. If they move forward, I push them back and make them wait longer. It may take a tap of a crop or something (I'm not saying beat her, but one nice 'attention getter' may be in order) I bet once she knows her place, she'll be a wonderful horse to have around the barn. __________________ Proud mom: DS Martinique, 1990 gr AHA Maximum Moonfire, 2000 ch/tob APHA/PtHA Idelle Khalipseh, 2008 gr AHA

10-29-2009, 12:35 PM
enigma Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,272	LOL -- good to know. __________________ There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. ~ Winston Churchill

11-01-2009, 07:09 PM
Arrow Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 88	I kind of think your little pony only has one "problem". And that is that she is too smart for her own good. Typical pony. She's bossy and intelligent, and she has quite a bag of games. You know, if Game A doesn't work today, maybe B will. And tomorrow A might work. Give her a bit of time to learn that none of her games work with you. She's smart, she'll figure it out.

11-01-2009, 07:25 PM
Horselady44 Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 2,437	It sounds to me like shes testing you to see what she can get away with. Just stay consistant. She sounds like a good horse...just seeing what she can get away with Most all horses will do that to some extent when you first get them home. Just stay consistant and you will work out the quirks Im sure __________________ A happy horse equals a happy rider!