Retirement Ethics question

[EquineAlberta]

I have an ethical question...looking for opinions and view points. Hoping for a thoughtful sharing of ideas.

I run a business boarding, training, and teaching lessons. This is not an easy business to make money at, as I am sure many of you know. Our target market is mid level participants; people on a budget but that want lessons/leasing or boarding. We have no super rich boarders and our rates are mid to low for the area. We limit ourselves to no more than 30 horses on our property.

Ok, now on to the question; what to do about lesson horses that just won't cut it any longer?

Horse number 1) We bought a TB gelding about 3 years ago. He raced for 5-6 years of his life and was destined to the B track, so we bought him for $2000.00 even though he had the start of arthritis in an ankle and is about the oddest built horse you have ever seen. He is a decent lesson horse, although he has his quirks so isn't suitable for beginners...and conformationally isn't suited to dressage, so he is a jumping horse. We are doing our best to manage his ankle (and poor hooves), but I doubt he will last more than a year or two. He will be about 12 when I figure he will be ready to retire, but retiring a 12 year old horse is not the most realistic option for us; not only is that 10 or more years of feeding an unrideable horse, and treating his ankle, but it also uses up a space where a boarder or lesson horse could go.

Horse number 2) TB/Appy gelding, we have had him for close to 7 years, and he has been a light use lesson horse for the last 3. he was supposed to be hubbies horse, but it became apparent he would not be able to handle his weight. He has a weak back and awkward way of going at canter, so his use has been limited and we are now thinking we are making his back worse by continuing to use him in lessons. He is sound of limb. We are working to make his back sound and to diagnoise the underlying issue, but conformationally I am pretty sure he just isn't meant for the job. I am worried though that if we sell him someone won't respect his back issues and he will either be punished for telling them he hurts and/or ignored until he flips/falls down. Again, hard to afford to retire a 9 year old!

I will not give a horse away as we have slaughter up here...plus I am always sceptical of the quality of farrier work/vet care companion/free horses get.

We have other lesson horses which we use regularly and that are better suited to the job that have earned their retirement package, but it is unrealistic to retire them all when we have limited room/space...particularly when they are so young and needing to retire...we would have no trouble retiring them if they were older.

What would you do?
What do you find other lesson barns do?

Karen

[Dream Ponies]

That a really tough situation Karen. Maybe the right situation will turn up for them if you start looking now. And maybe free leasing them to the right person will be a good solution.
We have a baby that was injured as a foal coming to live with us. Although she will probably need surgery, we have decided to give her a home. So you never know when the right family will come along for a horse with special needs. Hopefully their special someone will find you.

[merleliz]

Would they be sound as weekend trail horses? Maybe a lease to someone who rides once or twice a week?

There are a lot of us out there, people who don't have the time to ride except on weekends, older (like me), who would love to have a horse just to ride once a week on the trail for an hour or so, whose favorite gait is an amble, and who might love to do a "partial" lease thing...enough income to keep you from shouldering the full burden of retirement, just to break even on their care.

[Horselessnomore]

That is a tough situation to be in. You are in business to make money or at least try and break even. If you have to retire these horses so early and be responsible for their full care then they are not earning their keep. You could look in to a lease situation, but knowing the hay situation here in Alberta this year, that might not be the best of your options.
I have a 2 yr. old that is now worth nothing and a 6 yr. old TWH who doesn't have a lot of value right now b/c of the hay situation. We are basically stuck right now because of that and I will not give the 2 yr. old away so someone can turn around and sell him to the meat guy.
Is this a situation where these horses need to be retired right away, or can you hold on till spring in case the market picks up a bit and you may have more options in the spring . . . . . .

[Red Gate Farm]

Would either horse be usable in another line of work that is not as demanding as being a lesson horse? Perhaps one of your boarders wants a nice light riding animal that is trained and wouldn't overtax the horse? Well trained horses in their prime are hard to come by. Perhaps the weak backed one would make a good driving horse?

If both have given good service, and both mean something to you, and you cannot find them a good home, then humane euthanasia is another option that would keep them out of the auction ring/meat dealer's hands/abusive home.

[tuffsmom]

Our lesson horses we try to find them a home where they can be lightly used and taken care of. I can't be happier with the one we placed last year. He is fat and sassy.

If we can't find them a home, we will put down our lesson horse. It is not done lightly but we don't want them to be abused after they leave us. So if they can't hold up anymore and we can't find them a home, that is what we feel is best.

We do have an appy mare that will have to find another home probably in a year. We have already started looking for someone to take her.

[dunamovin]

Have you considered starting a drill team? The horses would only be used a couple times each week and the occasional exhibitions. You could charge a minimal amount for group lessons. The free publicity and contacts your stable would receive at exhibitions might make it worth your while. Some of these old timers seem to love getting back in the show ring with their buddies. It's also a way for the shy, non-athletic riders to compete.

[bubbleslove]

I really like the idea of drill team; it provides a way to do flat work for horses that aren't able to do intensive dressage or any jumping, like your TB. One of my favorite instructors started a drill team, and we used the old lesson mare for it, and she was wonderfully suited. Faster and slower horses/riders both learn, and there's room for both in the formations (ie/slower horses on inside of the lines where they can walk, and the faster ones go on the outside where they can canter). Our drill team had a huge turnout the one time per week that we met, and we showed at the local fair which brought even more participation.

[GodsGifts]

I saytry and find them a home first. There are people out there that would love to have a horse like them.

I have a gelding that costs me alot of money right now and he gets ridden on average once every 2 weeks...sometimes only once a month. But I love him and I spend the huge amount of money on vet bills he needs and his feet get done every 8wks on the day as well as I file down the flare inbetween trimmings. He gets the best of the best and anything he needs, even though I don't use him...
I have a mare that I ride on average twice a week and same goes for her.

So there are people out there.

If a good home cannot be found then I would suggest putting them down. It sounds harsh but personally if it were my horses, like if I had to sell my very expensive to keep gelding, I'd either find the perfect home OR put him down. I wouldn't want him to end up in the wrong hands and become slaughter bound, or abused. But thats JMO

[Brownie_GA]

Oh, wow, lots of terrific, and realistic sounding ideas here from everyone! I can imagine it being very difficult to separate your *business* brain from your *horse loving* brain in a situation like this...really a tough call. I haven't had experience with this, and I'm fortunate enough that we live on a pretty large acreage, so I haven't had to consider parting with any of my overgrown herd for any reason. I, too, am terrified of any horse I've ever owned moving to another home down the road and experiencing neglect...it just scares me to death to think about it.

I wish you HUGE success in placing these two sweethearts...may they find the perfect homes/jobs for them, and soon enough to keep you from going too far in the hole expense wise.

[dproaps]

Could either or both of them handle pulling a cart? Maybe they could be trained for that and you might find them a home with someone who just wants to drive and not to ride.

That's the only suggestion I have other than the ones already mentioned. If nothing else works though, and you can't place them in a good home, I would have them put down before I would take a chance on a bad home or the meat market with them.

[horsecrazygal]

It can be hard to find a good retirement home, but if they both can be lightly ridden, then I think it is worth looking into.

I have 2 older horses who are mostly unrideable and 1 riding horse. There are people out there who are willing to take horses in like that- they can just be hard to find. I would suggest offering them for free lease at your stable and allow them to be moved to the individual's home after a certain amount of time. That way you can get to know the people involved, and see how well they care for your horse before you give over ownership. Or you could just allow them to free lease indefinitely as long as they pay for feed.

I would put up flyers saying free lease and see if anyone comes along. You might want to mention that you might have to put them down if no one is interested since this is a business and it is better than having them neglected. One of my unrideable horses was going to be put down and even though I had no intention of getting another horse, I ended up taking her home anyway. She went from being an abused, flinchy, headshy, wild beast to a complete sweetheart. She is now my trick horse, and although she does have some issues I'm working on, she acts like a different horse than when I first brought her home. She is sound, however she was so severely abused during training I don't think she will ever be rideable. But we'll just have to see about that....

Goodluck

[EquineAlberta]

We had thought about a drill team a while ago just for fun, but when it comes down to it, it would just mean a LOT more work for me, and I am already doing hunter, jumper, dressage, and some western so I don't think being pulled in another direction would be good for me. Plus, I think the tight turns would be hard on either of these horses.

Free leases aren't in much demand here unless the horse is showable. Not many of our customers have their own property, and if they are going to lease a horse, they would rather lease a horse that is sound/showable.

I am in no hurry to part with the TB, and with his hard life to date, I don't think I would let him go. This is a horse that raced every 7-10 days when he was at the track...rarely winning, but always in the top 4. He is very ill conformed (super high withers, can't straighten his front legs, sickle hocked etc) so being trail ridden on uneven ground, or even just being ridden on a loose rein is not in his best interest. Plus, he has the sproingiest trot I have ever felt on a TB..so not for a novice/casual rider! He also needs plastic shoes in the summer packed with this special stuff to keep his feet elastic and ankle injections. My thoughts are when he can't jump anymore, to scale him back to 3 day a week flat work, then retire him and let him sit for a bit and see how he does....then consider putting him down....but I know some people are very against putting a horse down when they are still pasture sound...I just do not trust someone to not send such a big horse to meat...and I do not think the big lug deserves that.

The appy I think we will sell. Again I have to wait until he is sound and brought back to fitness, I am just more used to selling horses to show homes under trainers I trust, so selling a pleasure horse to an "unknown" home is new to me.

Karen

[recklesshoundog]

Don't you let anyone make you feel guilty about euthanizing over risking ending up in a bad bad place. Better to go in a quiet known place loved and cared for then scared alone and you know where.

[CowhorseGal]

I agree with recklesshoundog 100% It sounds like these horses have soundness issues (or will have soon).. If they were mine I would put them down when the time comes.. there is nothing irresponsible about this.. you are actually being a proactive owner.. ensuring that these horses DO NOT end up on the slaughter truck.. or starving in some hoarders field..
Good luck in your choice.. I am sure you will make the right one for you, which ever one that it will be..

[qtrhorse1993]

what about donating the appy x to a disabilty riding center. he wouldnt be used hard, sounds like he has the personality for it, and gives you a taxable donation, that gives hima job where he is well cared for, and provides some with a chance to know a great horse, the tb from the sounds of it wouldnt have the personality for that, but maybe donate him to a 4h group telling them his limitations. put it in writing when the time comes they are to be humanely put to sleep, maybe have them buried on your property( if you can do that). and i agree with the others, dont let any one make you feel bbad if you have to put them down, as horse owners our first responsiblity is to the well being of our horse. let us know what happens please.

[Range]

Instead of donating to a therapy RIDING place, you may look at donating to a equine psychology institution. They don't ride the horses, they use them to bring out emotional conflict.

Just a thought.

[tuffsmom]

Range, I like that idea.

[EquineAlberta]

I would NEVER donate a horse to a therapy program unless I could keep a close eye on the horse. THey do not have the funds to maintain a horse with injections/therapy, and they definately do not retire them (how could they afford to?) I know someone who donated a horse to a program telling them to let her know if the horse didn't work out and she would come get it...3 months later she went to check on the horse and it wasn't there anymore...no one would tell her where it went, but we can guess I have sense learned that happens a fair bit with the horses that don't work out...the horses turn into ways they can raise funds. Many therapy programs are run by people who like the students/kids, and not so much by horse people.

The Equine Assisted Learning program is a better idea...we have one not far from here, but they have no trouble finding enough horses to use...and again, they don't have funds to maintain a horse in sound condition and I am not sure of the ethics of making a horse live out its days in pain. I would rather they used abused or older horses that were still sound, than took in my two.

It looks like the Appy cross won't be able to be ridden again (humanely), unless some miracle happens, so our next step is to see if we can get him pasture sound...and if not, he will be put down. We are waiting to see if hubby gets work soon to know if we can finance experimental therapy as well as buy a replacement horse.

I am curious as to what most lesson barns/therapy barns do with their old horses. I know the one I started at retired a handful, found people to retire one or two of the favourites, but most of them went either to auction or to slaughter...and these horses worked 15 or so hours a week, 50 weeks of the year...how did they not earn a respectful end?

Karen

[ruffian]

I think euthanasia can be the kindest and most responsible choice. Horses can still be slaughtered in Canada (not that I am dead set against it, another topic) but if you have issues with it you have to be aware that it is a distinct possibility up here once a horse hits a certain price range.
The lesson barns I have been at would put their horses down, one was way up in the foothills and after being put down the body was left for coyotes and prey birds. Sort a a circle of life thing.
If it were me I would feel more comfortable knowing that the horse had spent his last moments being loved on by me and passing on peacefully in my company than either living in pain or on to an uncertain future where he may well starve or worse.
No one should judge you, whatever choice you make. As a vet once said to me when I was debating putting down my badly injured dog "anyone who stays up all night and puts this much thought into this, will make the right decision"