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Old 03-15-2010, 08:51 AM  
Amy
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Goat kid coccidiosis- difficult to treat...(Updated, another question/problem)

I have a 4 week old bottle baby. Last week he was very lethargic, took him to the vet, vet did a fecal and diagnosed cocci- said it was "borderline" too many. At that time, they snipped his scortum off (he had been banded the week before), gave the CD&T vaccine, gave Banamine, penicillin, and started him on a coccidostat.

The next day, he started having diarrhea. Followed the vet's instructions, giving probios and pepto... but it is really hard to get any pepto into him... best I can do it put it in a bottle with some sugar and warm water and hope he gets a few swallows down before he realizes what it is.... I hate to syringe it in because he fights and chokes, and I'm scared he will get pneumonia.

So now, 5 days later, it is the last day of the coccidostat and he still has horrible diarrhea... not super watery, but a lot of it. His energy and appetite are back to normal, so I think he is feeling better, but the diarrhea is persisting. Gonna call the vet again, but thought I'd post here too.

So the questions are:

Can I give something like Maalox instead of the nasty, pink pepto?

Should I ask the vet for more, or a different, coccidostat? He was on Amiprolium (SP? sorry, bottle not in front of me right now).

I am wondering if he picked this up from my adult goats.... like, did they have some that they are just not symptomatic of? Or if he came with the parasites in his system (lady I bought him from has a ton of goats). What is the best way to clean the adult goat pen to get rid of the parasites? Do I have to spray something?

Thanks!

Last edited by Amy : 03-23-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:21 AM  
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Coccidia lives in the soil. Every goat carries some. I don't believe there's any way to get rid of it.

I would bet that the diarrhea is still persisting because of the antibiotics. Keep giving Probios. Don't give anything but pepto. I can't remember if it's Kaopectate or Maalox that is harmful, or both.

Karen would have more information on this.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:25 AM  
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Treat your entire herd with Corid liquid in their water source. If one goat/kid has had it, they've all been exposed to it. Period. No ifs ands or buts.
Corid is rather expensive, ranging from $70-100 for a gal, but it's a very effective coccidiostat. There are two different levels that you can use; one is a treatment level for 5 days for animals already expressing symptoms, and the other level is a preventative level for 21 days to those that haven't gotten sick yet.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:08 PM  
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The trick to managing it is keeping the water and food containers clean. The farmers around here recommend a cap full of bleach to a hundred gallons of their drinking water. I've also heard that putting vinegar in the water helps as a preventative.

I found this information to be helpful to me.
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...idiosis06.html

I don't know where you are keeping your kid but I'd scrub down the area with a bleach solution. As was stated before it lives in the soil so rotating pasture is the safest bet to controlling it.
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:12 PM  
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I just have a minute but will answer best I can.

Why the Penn? Why Banamine?

What did he give you to give the kid for Cocci? There should be no need for the Pepto. Cocci scours should start to clear up within 24 hours of the first dose. Were there other worm eggs in the sample? May also be dealing with e-coli scours.

Cocci should be treated no less than 7 days up to 10 days with this damp spring weather we always go 10 days. As pointed out all goats have it but stress brings out an overload and it can kill the goat.

If you do need to give something for scours give Spectam Scour Halt one squirt in his bottle am and pm. It's a pig med and works wonders....is for e-coli.

We use Albon, Sulfadimethoxine for monthly treaments of cocci until the kid is at least 6 months old. 1cc per 10#s day one 1cc per 20#s day 2-10. I do not use Corrid it used to have a Thymine (Vit. B) inhibitor, supposedly this was corrected but I've heard from many breeders recently it has not been. I don't know it's not worth the risk to me if you don't know how to deal with it's best to go with a sulfa drug.. SMZs can be used too but the pills are a pain to dose.

Hope this helps gotta go I have a goat leaving soon....I'll check back later after chores are done.

Karen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy View Post
I have a 4 week old bottle baby. Last week he was very lethargic, took him to the vet, vet did a fecal and diagnosed cocci- said it was "borderline" too many. At that time, they snipped his scortum off (he had been banded the week before), gave the CD&T vaccine, gave Banamine, penicillin, and started him on a coccidostat.

The next day, he started having diarrhea. Followed the vet's instructions, giving probios and pepto... but it is really hard to get any pepto into him... best I can do it put it in a bottle with some sugar and warm water and hope he gets a few swallows down before he realizes what it is.... I hate to syringe it in because he fights and chokes, and I'm scared he will get pneumonia.

So now, 5 days later, it is the last day of the coccidostat and he still has horrible diarrhea... not super watery, but a lot of it. His energy and appetite are back to normal, so I think he is feeling better, but the diarrhea is persisting. Gonna call the vet again, but thought I'd post here too.

So the questions are:

Can I give something like Maalox instead of the nasty, pink pepto?

Should I ask the vet for more, or a different, coccidostat? He was on Amiprolium (SP? sorry, bottle not in front of me right now).

I am wondering if he picked this up from my adult goats.... like, did they have some that they are just not symptomatic of? Or if he came with the parasites in his system (lady I bought him from has a ton of goats). What is the best way to clean the adult goat pen to get rid of the parasites? Do I have to spray something?

Thanks!
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:33 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen Cole View Post
I just have a minute but will answer best I can.

Why the Penn? Why Banamine?

What did he give you to give the kid for Cocci? There should be no need for the Pepto. Cocci scours should start to clear up within 24 hours of the first dose. Were there other worm eggs in the sample? May also be dealing with e-coli scours.

Cocci should be treated no less than 7 days up to 10 days with this damp spring weather we always go 10 days. As pointed out all goats have it but stress brings out an overload and it can kill the goat.

If you do need to give something for scours give Spectam Scour Halt one squirt in his bottle am and pm. It's a pig med and works wonders....is for e-coli.

We use Albon, Sulfadimethoxine for monthly treaments of cocci until the kid is at least 6 months old. 1cc per 10#s day one 1cc per 20#s day 2-10. I do not use Corrid it used to have a Thymine (Vit. B) inhibitor, supposedly this was corrected but I've heard from many breeders recently it has not been. I don't know it's not worth the risk to me if you don't know how to deal with it's best to go with a sulfa drug.. SMZs can be used too but the pills are a pain to dose.

Hope this helps gotta go I have a goat leaving soon....I'll check back later after chores are done.

Karen
PCN and Banamine were because of having his scrotum nipped off, he had a small open area and since he was lethargic, but no diarrhea yet, the vet was treating as if there was a subclinical infection, just in case. Done with the PCN now though.

I called the vet's office today, and they told me to keep up with the probios and give it a few more days, because it can take up to a week for the diarrhea to clear up.

?? I'm just confused, do you guys just find these antibiotics at the pet store? I will look for the scour halt, I just cannot get enough Pepto in him to make a difference.

He is still alert and hungry this afternoon, also still has the runs... he is in an isolation pen away from the other goats.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:49 PM  
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Scour Halt....thats what I give my babies..clears it right up. I had it in my goats last year. I bought some Corid, put it in their water and used the scour halt to stop the runs. Never had a problem since, not had a goat die from it...yet.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:34 PM  
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I used this probiotic powder for my doe after she was on a round of harsh antibiotics . . . http://www.goatsprefer.com/directfedmicrob.htm#probpwr

It does seem kinda strange that the vet would castrate if the buckling was already banded . . . and already sick.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:41 PM  
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Most of what's been advised is OTC. I get mine at the feed store, TSC, or Jeffers. Scour Halt is at my feed store as is the Sulfamex.

You can also feed a goat feed with DeCoxx in it. I don't like to feed medicated feeds due to my horses, but....
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:28 PM  
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Ok if the vet thought infection I understand that then.

As Range said most of the meds....all I listed can be found over the counter but need to be ordered in most cases. Jeffers, Hoaggers, Midwest Vet Supply, Nasco.....I know there is more but thats all I can think of right now.

I know Iam not a vet but I can tell you from experiance treating for cocci for 5 days will not clear it up. What it will do is cause more of an issue with drug resistance down the road. Ok I didn't know what "Amiprolium" was, it would seem it is the RX name for Corrid. I would start your goat on Vit. B , B complex or if your vet is willing to get it for you Thymine. I always give at least 2 cc to kids. It's a water souluable vit. so what they don't need they pee out. Vit. B's also help stimulate them to eat so it's a win win.

Good Luck
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:56 PM  
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Thanks guys, I will look for scour halt and maybe some corrid or whatever the store carries for Cocci... I will also look into the feed- that would help prevent future outbreaks, right? But my goats are already FAT on hay alone, is goat feed going to make them fatter? And I understand the medication in the food is poisonous to horses, right? If I bought it I would keep it in a different shed away from the horses, but can it poison them if, like, the goats poop and a horse somehow eats goat poop? Not that my horses would ever do something so gross....

Strawbeery girl- I don't really count it as castration, the tissue holding the scrotum on was already necrotic, so he just nipped through a dead stump, basically. He wanted to take it off so the band wouldn't make the little sore worse, so it could heal in case that was a source of infection.

The little guy is doing good today, he's hungry and hollering like a baby goat should, and playing with us... Still has the runs but looks more pudding consistency now than milkshake... sorry for the gross description, LOL.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:07 PM  
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You already have Corrid you just need to use it for no less than 7 days. Amprillion SP) is the same thing just a name brand name.

Yes, the medicated feed can kill horses I don't know how it is shed into the poop and if it would matter or not. Yes, it will make them fatter.

You can get Albon from Hoaggers or most any of the livestock catalogs , by the pint and treat your goat monthly instead of medicated feed or water.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy View Post
Thanks guys, I will look for scour halt and maybe some corrid or whatever the store carries for Cocci... I will also look into the feed- that would help prevent future outbreaks, right? But my goats are already FAT on hay alone, is goat feed going to make them fatter? And I understand the medication in the food is poisonous to horses, right? If I bought it I would keep it in a different shed away from the horses, but can it poison them if, like, the goats poop and a horse somehow eats goat poop? Not that my horses would ever do something so gross....

Strawbeery girl- I don't really count it as castration, the tissue holding the scrotum on was already necrotic, so he just nipped through a dead stump, basically. He wanted to take it off so the band wouldn't make the little sore worse, so it could heal in case that was a source of infection.

The little guy is doing good today, he's hungry and hollering like a baby goat should, and playing with us... Still has the runs but looks more pudding consistency now than milkshake... sorry for the gross description, LOL.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:15 AM  
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Okay, got more Corrid at the feed store, since my dosing was interrupted by a couple days, should I just start him on a 7 day run? Also, it says I can put it in their water, I think I will treat the other goats even though they are asymptomatic, you all think this is a good idea, right?
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:18 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy View Post
Okay, got more Corrid at the feed store, since my dosing was interrupted by a couple days, should I just start him on a 7 day run? Also, it says I can put it in their water, I think I will treat the other goats even though they are asymptomatic, you all think this is a good idea, right?
If he were mine yes, I would totally restart the corrid and put him on for 7 full days. IF his poops don't clear up I'd go 10, if the still are runny I'd re-do a fecal and see what else is going on. I forgot to ask what dose did the vet say to use? I would also give him some B-complex daily or at the very least every other day incase he runs into goat poli (vit B deficiancy).

No, I would not put corrid in the water if nobody else is showing signs unless you have other kids drinking out of the water. When you start medicating even though there is no problem you just cause problems and it leads to the cocci becomming resistant to the medications.

Hopefully this post will take, last nites did not.

Found this on Fias Co Farms website thought it would be good to put up here.
Coccidia are a protozoan parasite that are almost always present in a goat's environment. When the goat is infected with these parasites in small numbers, the coccidia causes very little damage and no disease. When a goat is infected in large numbers, this disease is called Coccidiosis.

Almost all species of animals have their own strain of coccidia. The coccidia of other animals, for example, rabbits and chickens, do not infect goats. The coccidia of sheep may be responsible for some problems in goats.

Please be aware that all goats usually carry a few coccidia. Adult goats have them, but are usually strong enough to resist them. People think of Coccidiosis as a kid "disease" because kids have not built up a strong enough immune system to resist the coccidia yet, this is why kids show more problems with coccidia. If you take a stool sample from your adult goats to the vet and they show a coccidia or two, it is nothing to worry about, it is virtually impossible to eliminate ALL coccidia and worms for a goat (it is normal to have a few). It's an overload of coccidia or worms that you need to be concerned about and act upon.



Our original experience with coccidiosis:

When we first started out, we had just a few cases of coccidiosis here (that we knew of). When we diagnosed the problem, we treated the kids with Albon, which we got from the vet (a dog & cat version of Albon). The vet stuff is expensive- $15 for one 5 day treatment. It was yellow and smelled like bananas. After a few cases, this got very expensive.

I later heard about people treating preventively, but didn't personally agree with feeding medicated feed. This was because there is no way to guarantee how much medicine the kid is getting. I didn't see how it could be effective and thought it may help the cocci build immunity. But, I was still interested in the prevention treating.

Coccidiosis is always present. We have found that you should just assume that all kids have it. All adults have it as well, but have built an immunity. You need to treat is in the young until they also, build an immunity.

After some research, I found that, though many people use Corid (amprolium), but it dose not work as well as Sulmet (sodium sulfamethazine) or Albon (sulfadimethoxine). I decided to try Sulmet 12.5% Solution, a liquid, that is usually put in the drinking water (it was cheaper than Albon). It cost $8 a bottle (16 oz) at the Co-op. Instead of putting it in drinking water. Starting at three weeks of age,, we gave this to our kids orally, with the proper dose per weight (scroll down for more details) every three weeks until they were 3 months old. We also treated them any time we saw runny poops. We were pleased to see the growth on our kids increase. They all around seemed healthier.

After a little more research and speaking with other breeders I decided to switch to Albon (sulfadimethoxine) because it works even better than Sulmet. The Albon 12.5% Solution does not come in a 16 oz. bottle and only comes in 1 gallon. The gallon cost $54, but when you take into account that you won't have vet bills and sick kids, for the amount of goats we have, it was worth getting (ordered for PBS Livestock or Jeffer's - see the suppliers page). I bought the gallon and then another goat friend bought half of it from me. The gallon I have now is the one I bought last year, and will last this whole year, so in the end, it will only have cost me about $15 to treat the whole kid crop this year; well worth this small expense. Di-Methoox Concentrated Solution 12.5% is exactly the same thing as Albon Concentrated Solution 12.5% but is cheaper.

Since writing this page, we started using a more holistic and natural approach to coccidiosis prevention that is working very well for us, scroll down this page for more details)

Here is a link to the full page.
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/coccidiosis.htm
Karen
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:47 PM  
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Little goat is back on Corrid (I had run out of the stuff the vet supplied) and he is doing well, his stools are clearing up. I already started the big guys on a run based on an earlier suggestion, so at this point I'm going to finish it.

Thanks!
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:42 PM  
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Okay, gave my big goats Corrid x 6 days, now they have fevers and are acting lethargic? The bigger goat (LaMancha) has a temp of 105.5, the little guy (Nigerian Dwarf) is 106.5. (Incidentally, the kid, who has been in his own little pen, is doing just great.) They have no diarrhea, are eating, but not as well as they usually do, the big one is acting sicker, but he's also a big baby that throws a fit when things don't go his way, so maybe the little guy just has a higher tolerance for discomfort? But the big goat usually runs, bucks, plays, begs for food, etc, and he is just totally mopey.

Talked to the vet, he said that those temps are not terribly high for goats, to give them 1/4 gram of bute each, and recheck temps later.

Can a run of Corrid cause a fever for some reason? Inflammation, shedding parasites...? Does giving them bute and watching them sound right?

*sigh* and I was planning on reintroducing the little guy to the pen today, I guess not now....

Thanks
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:05 AM  
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I read you bought the baby goat from someone. Is it possible he has some disease and now your flock is catching it? perhaps discuss with your Vet?

When a new animal arrives they should be kept away from any contact for a while.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:39 AM  
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The vet thought those weren't high temps? Do you know what their temps are normally?

Typical temp is 102 to 104, so I'd be very concerned about 106.

I am also one the err on the side of over caution. If I had one running a temp and acting off, I'd likely dose them with Biomycin or PCN, depending on my mood at the time, and the goat (I'm allergic to PCN so if the goat is rambunctious, I usually go with Biomycin so I don't get stuck).
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:40 PM  
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We had two goat kids that had something very similier. Something that was very helpful was giving them a Vitamin C injection. It helps a lot. Also dry drenching him with cooking oil. It can help a lot also.

Please try these and then let me known how they helped him....
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:00 AM  
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Wouldn't the cooking oil produce more diarrhea? Too much oil causes diarrhea in horses . . .

Do you know their usual temps? Also are you using a digital thermometer or an old school one?

If they're running fevers, you know they are sick! Make sure you continue a probio supplement throughout this . . . strong antibiotics will wipe out their natural good bacteria and their natural immune system.
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