Stray Dog Advice, Please!!! Terrific Update!!!

[sundancer maiden]

Saw the dog yesterday first time. Goofing around with my GSD mix Baron. My first thought was that if he was a dump I'd take him in a heartbeat! The best discription I can give is a small Akita with long hair. Sculpted little face, ears that go up and then curl over at the top, tail goes up and starts to curl over the body. He is 30-40 lbs, white base coat with few big black spots, black over the eyes and ears. The areas on his nose, and legs that are white, have tiny black spots- like freckles.
Yesterday when I called to them, he looked very friendly, tail wagging hard. My dog sort of put his face over the smaller dog and when the stray took a step forward, Baron basicly attacked him! The stray took off, no fighting back at all.
That is odd, not at all like Baron, no aggression problems before and Baron is 12 years old. Here for 11 of those years. As soon as I turned away Baron went out and was perfectly friendly to the stray. I did not see the stray again until today.
I chained Baron up so he wouldn't interfere. Squatting down the stray slowly came up to me. His nose was at my fingers so I lightly stroked his face. I noticed he sort of froze, tail stopped wagging. When I worked my way towards his back, I wanted to feel for ribs. He pulled away. I went and got him some food. He still approached slowly and kind of moved around the food. I told him the food was his and pushed it towards him. He then ate like he was hungry. There are lots of burrs in his coat and you can see his waist is small, even with the long hair.
He was completely done eating and turned towards me, wish I could remember exactly, but I know I didn't move fast or behind his head much, but he then snapped at me. It was a warning for sure, we were close enough he could have made contact, he did a kind of snarly bark as he snapped.
Now my instinct is to get him into my kennel, 24x30 feet. Keep him there while I check with all neighbors and do found posters and ads.
He's hard to approach, so I don't think he'd bite a child. But I feel it would be safer for everyone (including him) to be contained. I could not see if he is intact.
What are your gut reactions? I would like him to be evaluated by someone with more experience than me. I've had dogs all my 50 years, including Chow mixes and a pure Akita, but have not had to deal with aggression. What would you do, and how aggressive might he be????

[Akita it Girl]

Call the apca to come and trap him.

Otherwise, there are instuctions that you can google to make a catch pole, or just feed him in the kennel and lock him in.

[hawk]

1. Crate him first off! To avoid him from attacking you again. Post up fliers and ask around if anyone is missing a dog ...who knows, he could have a family and he might of been missing for a few weeks - hence why he is all burred up and filthy...
2. Take him to the vets to have him rabies tested and your dog too! I would recommend you also going to the hospital and getting your round of rabies shot too. Aggression in stray animals could mean that they have rabies, and if they interact with non-rabid animals and humans, you know death is knocking at your front door soon. Be safe then sorry.
3. don't want to sound harsh, but if this dog is going to interfere with your dog's behavior and is going to have high aggressive issues - best to euthanize him.
4. if you rather train him and keep him and is free of any diseases/illness, neuter him asap. And start ground training him - set up the environment for which he is only allowed to be in, and show him rules/boundaries. Work with him as much as possible, so he doesn't rebound to his bad attitude.

5thly, I applaud you for somewhat taking him in [unless your keeping him], there is a special place in heaven for people like you

[arabiancowgirl]

He has not learned pack order yet... plus you have no idea how much abuse he may have gone through. I would not hold it against him because he snapped at you. He may have felt cornered also.

[LuvMyPaint]

I wouldn't write him off yet. Stray dogs are completely different than loved pets. They're often starved, frightened, abused...

So did you catch him or not? If you can I would put food in the enclosure and when he goes in lock him up. Then just take some time feeding him treats and hanging out there until he starts to trust.

Like someone said he might have felt cornered when you tried to feel his ribs. Maybe people have grabbed at him there?

[BabyMay]

Sounds like a fear issue instead of an aggression issue. Don't try and pet him or anything that involves touching him. Just feed and talk to him. Try that for a few days. And remember that a dog wagging his tail will bite as quick as one that is not.

[sundancer maiden]

Hawk- Whoa!!!
I deeply appreciate your concern, but let me repeat..warning for sure, close enough he "could" have made contact. But he did not touch me!
Baron basicly attacked him, he ran away no fighting back. There was no fur, blood or even real tooth contact.
The fact that he ran away rather than fight has to be a good sign. I've had dogs that will respond when attacked, won't start it but will finish it!!
No dog to dog aggression at all. I have loads of cats all over the place, he showed no interest in them.
When I was touching him and he froze, I was extra careful. I have not owned any dogs with aggressive tendencies, but I know body language!
The idea of abuse is always on my mind, it is way too common!!!!
The total lack of fighting back, the way he would freeze and the fact that he did not make contact when he snapped, but sooo easily could have. That's why I want opinions from those of you with more actual experience than I. My feeling is that he is not mean, but I'd like to be more certain!!!
I understand that no one can possibly know without being around him to evaluate him. Just if you think he may be helpable (probably not a real word) you know?`

[hopeless addict]

If he didn't make a wrong move till he was fed, I'd say he's just touchy about food, which isn't surprising if he's been very hungry for awhile. I'd say that the best bet is to get him into the kennel if possible and keep him there for a couple of days to see if his demeanor improves with a few decent meals and as much attention as you can safely give him....

[sundancer maiden]

Arabiancowgirl, right on I didn't feel the snapping took away all the other good behavior. We were in my driveway, wide open. Can a dog feel cornered in the open?
LuvMy Paint, no I knew that catching him would be difficult. No real touching allowed! My kennel is back closer to the barn. I run extension cord to a heated water bucket when in use. Now that I have fed him he might follow me that far. I doubt it, it's going to take some doing.
BabyMay, fear is what I'm thinking. I was impressed when he didn't just dive into the food.It was like he was waiting for permission.
I rescue animals a lot, I would like to help him. My Baron would show up every couple of days, just watching. If I even started toward him he dissapeared. So, I just stood and talked to him until one day he took a deep breath and walked up to me. He's been here the intire 11 years since!
My (hopeful) plan is to keep him contained, just bringing food, water, treats and company; nothing physical unless he comes to me. And then I'd keep it brief! I want to help him, I don't want to get hurt!!

[dproaps]

It sounds to me like he was really hungry and would like to be friends, but is extremely apprehensive if you get to close. Could be an abuse situation. If you can, try to tempt him into a kennel or fenced enclosure, then contact your vet about how to proceed.

I know you want to help and you may be able to, he sounds like a lovely dog that is in trouble. However, you do need to be exceedingly careful, you don't know what he's been exposed to.

His reactions don't sound to me like a rabies case, more like fear. But you never know so be careful.

[Dustygirl]

Ok...here's my two cents...for what they are worth...lol. Having had danes for years, some rescues, some born here, I've noticed that there is ALWAYS a pack order....and even the humans are inculded in a dog's pack order. This guy may have lost respect for any human he's had contact with...hence him showing up at your house and not having a place to call home or a human to call his leader. Baron sees you as his leader and when the new guy approached, Baron may have felt a threat to his pack status or he may have been telling the new guy to "back off, I belong to her, not you". Of my four danes now, even the lowest man on the totem pole will try and push the pack order now and again if he sees a slight chance for advancement up the pole...he's hardheaded and just doesn't know when enough is enough. The fact that this guy jetted off when Baron came after him means one of three things...he's either smart enough to know his place on the "pole" so to speak, he's feeling you out to see if he can "top" you and/or Baron, or he's not sure if he wants to stick around long enough to lay claim. If he stays, just be prepared for him to try and push Baron and or you for a higher staus at some point.

His "warning" is just that. For some reason he felt threatened about something. Maybe food aggrression, which is understandable if he's not been fed regularly, but definately not acceptable. One of my guys is still very guarded towards the other animals when it's feeding time, and he's never missed a meal from the day he was born...just a dog thing. I could suggest all sorts of advice on how to get him over this (towards you...may never get him over it with the other dog), but that's an issue to deal with if you decide to keep him or not. You're right...he could have nailed you if he wanted to. He may have thought better of it for fear of your reaction...again, feeling you out. Be careful, because he may soon realize that "if she didn't do anything the last time, then I can push her more the next time...I win". When dogs try and establish themselves, they often show just enough to get a reaction at first...then they press themselves more in an effort to gain pack status....he sees you as nothing more than another potential pack member right now. Do NOT show him fear, but protect yourself in case he proves to be an insane (or possibly sick) dog that just doesn't care about any outcome.

I'd try and lure him to the lot with food. Offer the food and then go on about your business for a day or so before you try to befriend him...he will see that you are no threat and the provider of consistant food. If you decide to try and keep him, your vet may quarentine him for a period of time to make sure he isn't rabid....not sure of the state laws there. Definately cut the jewels if he still has them and vaccinate for everything....keep an eye on Baron as well if his vaccinations aren't up to date.

Let us know what you decide, be careful and good luck!

[LuvMyPaint]

I think Dustygirl hit the nail on the head.

Yes dogs can feel cornered in an open space. Sounds to me like he may have been afraid.

My mom found one of my dogs at her work (she worked at a busy gas station). This dog was wandering around for days and they were trying to feed her. She was skin and bones and my mom wanted to bring her home but she wouldn't let anyone near her.

Do you know how we finally got her? One of the guys my mom worked with was on the late shift and it was a slow night. He left his car door open with a bunch of hot dogs and food in there. When she jumped in to eat everything he slammed the door behind her.

My dad went and picked her up. When he put her into our yard I went out there and she just fawned all over me. My mom called from work to ask about her and was suprised to hear that since she had been so fearful at the station and was such an intimidating dog. I always guessed her to be a Rott/Bullmastiff mix. Once I got the weight on her she weighed 100lbs.

I believe she settled in so fast because she knew we were going to take care of her and the less stressful enviroment. Plus when she arrived I stuck food down for her. She was definately abused before I got her... I couldn't pick up a stick for years around her without her cowering down.

I think what this little guy needs is a constant source of food so he knows it's not going to be his last and a routine.

Can you get pics of him?

[spotteddraft]

My husband and I rescued a dog almost 8 years ago. He came from a dude ranch where the pecking order had changed and he was not getting the food that was fed because they didn't seem to care enough to make sure that all the dogs were getting fed. We had been at this dude ranch 6 months before hand and Kurt was well fed and taken care of. With the ownership change, the dog pack also changed. Kurt had never had a leash on because he was a ranch dog. He was so scared that he would snap at us out of fear. Once we got him home and he was fed everyday, the fear started to slowly fade. It took a very long time for him to not be concerned about being fed. He would occasionally snap at me when I was brushing him or was eye level with him. We have now had him for 8 years and he is a wonderful dog. It just took him some time to realise that we weren't going to hurt him and that he would be fed and well loved. Maybe this little guy is defensive over food due to not being regualarily fed and is a little scared. Hopefully he comes around for you.

[sundancer maiden]

Update, his name is Blue and he lives just under a mile away! I hadn't seen him for close to 3 days, until today. Baron let him come a little closer before running him off. I tied up Baron and got some food. He went around the bowl to come to me first, I was standing about 4 feet away. After he ate a truck came up, We were at the end of my driveway.
He is a boarder collie, healer mix and he hasn't shown any aggressive behavior before. Now I wonder if, even though Baron was tied up quite a ways away, if Blue might not have been concerned about him getting mad at him anyway. I told the owner all that had gone on and that Blue is a beautiful dog and I am very happy that he does have an owner. He said he keeps Blue in but his son has let him out. I told him that Blue is welcome to play with Baron, but I promise not to feed him anymore!

[horselady]

Glad you found the owner,

[BabyMay]

I am glad he has an owner.

[LuvMyPaint]

That's great news that he's got an owner!!!