Coworker attacked

[GreyDot]

Originally Posted by Drafty

Without having been there, I would not jump so quickly at playing God. Are you sure the attack wasn't provoked? Did the woman misinterpret behavior? How can you easily justify putting down a dog who bit, not out of maliciousness, but out of instinct, when HUMAN murderers who carefully plot out the killing of other people are left to rot in jail for YEARS because it is "inhumane" to kill THEM?

I believe there is a time and place for destroying an animal that is truly dangerous to society, since there are so many GOOD animals that need homes. However that being said, I would bet that at least 99% of the time people are bitten by dogs because they provoked the animal OR because the unintentionally provoked the animal (i.e. missed or misread the signals given off by the dog).

Just something to think about.

Also, in this situation it sounds like the animal was ruined by human incompetence. Some time spent with a skilled, professional trainer, and then finding a home that would follow up with the training could be enough to turn him around. Or maybe he is too far gone. Who can say without having been there?

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with this. I've known Akitas - and this is not a breed to be taken lightly. They are WONDERFUL dogs, but they are not a breed for everyone. Now, I'm the BIGGEST sucker for the so-called "aggressive" breeds - love Rotties, Akitas, Pitties etc., and have never had a problem with them. However, once one of these dogs starts a cycle of aggression AND goes on to bite - especially in a situation like that, it takes almost a miracle for it to be a "safe" dog again.

He is obviously territorial - and felt that the co-worker had trespassed on his domain. He went after her when he felt he had the upper hand. When added to his already-established "badness", this is not a dog I would trust ever again.

I agree with you in the sense that a dog CAN, very easily, be ruined by the way it is treated. I also agree with you about the fact that many dogs ARE provoked. More children are bitten by Golden Retrievers than by Rottweilers. However, this is a situation where it seems his previous behaviour speaks very much against him. Unfortunately, I would be on the side of euthanasia. Think about it this way - and think about it RATIONALLY - if you heard this dog had done this, and the owner wanted to come and visit you at home, and bring the dog with you - would you want it in your home, and would you feel safe with it?

This is really not a case where "human murderers" have anything to do with the situation - it's not a particularly fair comparision, IMO.

DBS, my sincerest wishes for your co-worker's speedy recovery. I'm sorry this happened to her.

[bbryant573]

Originally Posted by mlh619

Sorry to hear about your coworker I hope she recovers 100% As for putting the dog down... About 99.9% of dogs are born followers, they don't like to be in the leader role. In a pack there is an alpha male and alpha female. They control the entire pack through body language and touch. When humans get a puppy they think it is so cute when it jumps up, steals our stuff, invites themselves on the the bed/couch/(insert other items here). We encourage them to jump up so we can pet them and generally let them have their way. This all feeds into allowing the dog to become the pack leader. Dogs NEED someone to be the leader and if the human does not step up to that role (intentionally or not) the dog will be forced into that position. Do they want to be the leader, no, but because someone has to do it they take it upon themselves to be the leader. Now add a few years to this dog in this unstable frame of mind, allowed to be dominant and alpha because the human won't take that position and you have a dog that is starting to show possesive and aggressive tendancies. You now have a dog that guards his space will growl or bite when asked to do something and whole other list of unwanted behaviors. Once a dog has had to be the leader for awhile (some dogs it is less time than others) it becomes harder for them to give up that position (depending on the dog). Some dogs are more than willing to have a human assume that role immediately whereas the next dog puts up some fight. Lack of exercise is a huge factor in dog behavior - being in a kennel is restricting the exercise therefor the dog has pent up energy contributing even more to the aggression. Dogs that are unaltered and not allowed to breed twice a year also have the sexual frustration which contributes to the aggression. Now put this into a breed that is already known to be a dominant breed and you have a recipe for disaster... Is it the dog's fault he bit someone- not a chance, is it the kennel staff's fault - partially because they probably didn't catch or ignored the subtle warning signs that an attack was imminent, is it the owner's fault - absolutely, it is their responsibility to keep the dog in a balanced, stable frame of mind.

Now hear me out on why I believe the kennel staff are at fault. Every dog no matter what they background of aggressive behaviour will give you warning signs that they will attack. Its the little things like their ear set, how the head is held, eye contact, the moment they freeze are all precursors to an attack. Now many dogs you can get away with ignoring these slight signs and you will never have a problem because they are satisfied that you will finish whatever you are doing and they are happy to submit to that but the dogs that have dominant tendency go through a though process much different. It is more like - the ears set changes, no response from human, the head becomes dominant, no response from human, the stare down begins and the human looks away solidifying the dogs mind that they are in control and it progresses from there. Many kennel staff don't have the necessary tools to deal with dominant dogs just because of lack of training. Being a dog lover and being the dog leader are two totally different things.

Back to the owner - it is his/her responsibility to bring to the kennel a balanced dog so he/she needs to find a trainer that can help them deal with the dog

I don't believe that the dog is aggressive. The attack was more likely a product of circumstance. Should the dog be put down? I don't think that should be the first thing to happen. This dog can be rehabilitated into a balanced member of society if the person knows how to do/go about it. If no one is willing to take that job on then yes put the dog down. It is sad when humans produce a dog like this and aren't willing to right the wrongs they have done and it is the animal that loses their life.

I totally agree with what this says!!! Especially in the first paragraph! Dogs will take over the leadership role if the owners don't step up to the plate. Leadership role is a 24 hour 7 days a week 365 days a year job. If you provide leadership 85% of the time they will be leader the other 15% of the time. You can't allow that...you have to be leader all the time!!! And Akita, German Shepherds, Dobermans, Rott, Pit Bulls etc.. can turn into a "red zone' dog if they aren't exercised properly (if you watch Ceasar Millan you know where we're coming from) - you have a combination of dominance + lack of exersice = aggression. They have to release that frustration so by taking them out for long, long, long walks twice a day they are able to release that frustration combined with proper balanced leadership you don't get that aggression!! A tired dog is a good dog!!! I also agree that it's partly the kennels fault but most of all it's the owners fault for not reading about the breed, and keeping him intact. Do I believe that this dog should be put down, no not really. I believe that this dog should be fixed, be rehomed with someone who knows what they're doing and that will take the committment of walking it everyday, and providing him with some very strict leadership rules. No jumping, no going through the door ways first, moving if he's in the way, sleeps in a crate at night, last one to eat etc....

I'm really sorry to hear that your co-worker got attacked. I hope she feels better soon

[Drafty]

Forgetting about the dog for a second, since this dog was being BOARDED at a kennel, it was the kennel staff's responsibility not to put the dog in a situation where it would attack anyone. And it is the kennel staff’s responsibility to keep themselves safe as well. I would never board my dog at a kennel where a member of the STAFF had an incident that resulted in a CLIENT'S dog being put down.

I worked at a kennel. I know Akitas. And I’m not interested in arguing with anyone. We all have our different opinions. And I’m sorry that you don’t comprehend the allegory that I used. I respect that your view differs from mine. But I am disgusted that so many of the professed animal lovers here are so quick to kill.

Is there any news on the woman? How is she doing? Was the dog put down?

[A J]

First, sorry about your co-worker, hope she heals quickly and without any lasting damage.

I've read this thread, and avoided commenting, because I honestly believe the OWNER is the one who is the problem here - and due to the OWNER'S negligence, the dog would probably be best off being put down - for his own sake. If the dog had been with an owner who properly trained and handled him, then the likelihood of this ever happening would have been greatly reduced. Obviously the owners are unlikely to actually handle the situation properly, and because of their lack of responsability, the dog has now become a liablity. And a dog like that IS very likely to bite again, even if he had a really good reason for it, he is obviously not trained, handled properly, or taught right from wrong behavior. Unless these unresponsible owners are willing to let their "cute baby" go to someone who will PROPERLY train and handle him (including getting him neutered), then I do not believe it is a good idea for him to continue as a "normal" member of society.

Yes, dogs can be rehabbed, yes proper training and strong leadership and a home that understands their dog may NOT do well in a kennel situation (and if FORCED to do so take precautionary measures such as muzzling), and someone who has the experience and knowledge to deal with it may create an entirely different scenario. If the dog was to be placed in a home like that and evaluated, then I would say give him a chance.

However, if his current owners sit and make excuses and/or do nothing different, then I do believe it is only a matter of time. Unfortunatly for the dog, his owners have the right to keep him, and they have failed him.

Although my opinion really doesn't matter with his owners or this case, my personal opinion is that if his owners are not forced to do something different or give him to someone qualified to rehab him, then he should be put down.

As for the kennel, some policy changes probably should be considered just for safety purposes of staff. However, anyone who chooses to work with animals is likely to get injured at some point - it's part of what we do, and it may not always be something we can avoid through policy.

[TBxQH]

Originally Posted by DoBeSassy

no training, walks all over his owner. Intact becuase he is so cute he HAS to have babies.

Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have animals.