A big Decision

[GoinToTell]

Last night and for several weeks now..I have been trying to figure out what I want to do with my dogs. I originally bought Bailey to use as a breeding female. However....after her first litter....I have begun to question if I want to do this all again. She had a decent sized litter, 8, but not a single merle in the bunch. We discussed last night while it was a huge learning experience, and we had fun with the puppies, its a ton of work. Thats not a problem at all. But we found ourselves getting attached to them and it was stressful finding "perfect" homes for them all. Both dogs have pedigrees that are of 2 different backrounds. Rusty has more show champions with a few herding champions tossed in while Bailey has a lot of working dogs in her pedigree and not many show champions.

We came up with last night, maybe if they weren't "family" dogs, it would be a different story. My dogs go most everywhere with us. They help me work both the horses and the chickens. Eventually they will learn cattle. Bailey and her pup Roxy...AWESOME working dogs. I mean they sleep in the bedroom at night..in the a/c. They are spoiled beyond spoiled on so many more levels.

But if I were going to do this again. I would want to wait at least 2 years. That means 84 days in the next two years that I have to keep the dogs seperated. As I learned the first time, not an easy task. Roxy will be fixed. I am now trying to decide if I want to fix Bailey and Rusty...or just Rusty or just Bailey. If I fix Rusty, I know of a blue merle, that if I wanted to breed again..I could use as a stud. But then you have the "what ifs" about another male dog coming on the property. I have never seen a stray on our property...but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen between the hours of 7:30 and 5:30 while I am at work. I think fixing Rusty would be a viable option. Makes life a lot easier and I could leave Bailey in tact for another year or so, and if in that time I decide against it well..then she can be fixed as well.

HT'ers in all your wisdom...help me out. I am almost certain we are going to fix one or the other or both. SO if you have made it this far, and you were wanting a GTT pup, you may be out of luck. I am looking long term and realize what health impacts it has, realize how it reduces the pet population, and it just makes life a tad easier. I am just trying to figure out what I want to do.
For Refrence..here are the "kids" I am talking about:
Bailey:



Rusty



Roxy, pup out of the 2,


Any suggestions would be most helpful. I know the majority of you will say fix and I am ok with that. I just wanted to get others opinions! Thanks everyone!

[horseloverinVA]

If I was going to fix only one of the 2, I would have Rusty done. That leaves you some time to decide with Bailey. If you know of another stud that makes it easier. I've been in the exact same situation as you, I toyed with the idea and finally decided to have both dogs fixed. I have to say it was nicve not having to worry about another "oops" litter even though they were purebreds. Having both fixed alleviated a lot of stress twice a year lol.

[AlbertaGirl]

Any chance you think Roxy may be breeding material? Just curious, because ou could always get Bailey and Rusty fixed, and then consider breeding Roxy later on, which is basically what I did after my litter of puppies this year. Only I don't have a stud dog here, I paid to bred to him, then kept my female pick of the litter, and got Momma spayed. Just an idea, but otherwise I'd probably neuter Rusty and breed Bailey to the blue Merle later on.

[enelson]

I love your dogs! I would fix Rusty and keep Bailey open. I'm looking for a blue merle pup right now, and not wanting to spend a ton...haven't found anything yet. I kinda like Rusty's coloring too, he's a pretty boy.

[gbarmranch]

I have no advice.. you know your dogs, and you know your heart - and I know you will make the right decisions - whatever those may be..

I will say that I love your dogs.. and had you been closer, one would be getting spoiled at our house right now..

[doxies13isenough]

Yeah what GBar said ^^

[GoinToTell]

I am agreeing w/ those that say to fix Rusty. I think that would really really be the simplest solution. Now....Alberta brings up and interesting point.....and yet another option. The jury is still out on Roxy. I had one lady that wanted to buy her and use her as a breeding female. But we had already chose our pick of the litter and therefore I wasn't going to sell her. Right now she is in the gangily ugly puppy stage so its hard. I think she is going to be a much bigger dog than Bailey, she has both pedigree's/genetics that co could produce a nice litter as well. Ahhhh more to ponder!

Enelson....I wish you luck! The lady I bought Bailey from has a few merles but they are mainly red merles. She also has some black tri's and red tri's. PM me if you want her website! She is located in southern Mo.

[alliebath]

As you have found out, breeding is a huge amount of work and responsibility when done correctly.

I have a nationally ranked top show dog with titles out the wazoo and all health clearances - he has been bred 2 times in his 10 years. And neither time by me - the responsibility of researching pedigrees, trying to get a handle on the genetics (health, color, whatever), finding great homes (which is a TON of work) and then guaranteeing those babies for the rest of their lives is more responsibility then I am willing to take.

I have his son and I am thrilled with him - I can only hope that he can do as well as both his sire and dam did in the show ring.

My male has now developed an eye issue (did not CERF for 2008) so he will not be bred again. While the eye issue is believed to be caused by environmental factors, it isn't worth the risk for those that might get his puppies to deal with this (even if it doesn't show up for 10 years). I have collected and frozen him - not sure that I will continue to pay to store it in light of this new development. As hard as it is to do the responsible thing sometimes, you just do.

It sounds like the truly responsible thing to do for the pet overpopulation issue and the overall ease of your own life is to spay and neuter them and love them to death.

[SheriK]

Exactly what gbar said. Is that a chicken sitting on Rusty's leg in that picture? And he doesn't try and rip its head off? My blue heeler loves the taste of free range chicken

Originally Posted by gbarmranch

I have no advice.. you know your dogs, and you know your heart - and I know you will make the right decisions - whatever those may be..

I will say that I love your dogs.. and had you been closer, one would be getting spoiled at our house right now..

[GoinToTell]

Sherik..hehe yea....when we first got chickens...for him to learn to herd with...I made the mistake of giving him way to many squeeky toys....and we brought home these little bite sized "squeeky toys"..or so he thought. He was looking the box (I am sure w/ dinner on his brain) and he finally found one he liked and reached in the box...we yelled at him and said RUSTY NO!! Ever since then he will have nothing to do w/ them. He is a very sensitive dog. If I remprimend the puppy or Bailey and he is in ear shot...he thinks he is in trouble. He will blink his eyes and lick and lay down...as if to say I dont know what I did..but I am VERY VERY sorry for whatever it was I "did". So needless to say...he puts up with about everything we make him suffer through. I think he associates the chickens w/ trouble..so he just stays away.

Same thing w/ the horses..he got kicked one time and he wont even go in the barn. Unless we go up the loft..in which case he knows he is ok up there. But he will follow along when I ride around the farm or down the road. But never on the same side of the road...always on the opposite side. (talk about being extra careful! but its annoying when a car comes and he just stands there...and wont move).

I think we have decided to get him fixed. We decided to start with that.....then we wont have to worry about him around the girls. Then we can decide which girl we want to fix and leave one for a little longer. I am sure just as soon as I would get the whole clan fixed..I would have second thoughts. O well....Eventually everything will be fixed. Thanks to everyone w/ your comments and thoughts. It really helped me make my decision. You all are great!

[BabyMay]

If you aren't sure you want to breed anymore, I say get them fixed. Not only because of the overpopulation problem, but for health issues. I nearly lost my female lab because I didn't spay her. Kept thinking maybe someday I might breed. Well 3 Yrs ago she got an infection. It was the same week my mom passed, so I didn't really notice Cali was sick. $2000.00 later Cali was home and on the mend. But there is the chance of all kinds of things that can be prevented with spaying and neutering.

[GoinToTell]

Well today is Rustys date w/ doc. He is a mess right now and we have decided to neuter him. Bailey is such a tease and Roxy can't figure out what in the world is wrong w/ everyone. She sits on top of the doggie barn and just watches. I am sure everything will go fine and I am looking forward to everyone being able to be together. That in itself is about to drive all dogs crazy as well as me!!! Rusty howled and whimpered and carried on all night.

[pvf]

Good luck Rusty!! Life will be much easier for you guys and for Rusty..

[GoinToTell]

PVF you are so right! 10 months out of the year he is great..but those 2 months...he definitly doesn't think w/ his brain. My dad thought I was making a mistake..but I am 100% certain this is the right decision. While he has a good pedigree....sometimes you just have to say enough. We...or I should say "they" tried it once and while the pups were good pups...somebody forgot to through some merles in the bunch!!! Besides, he doesn't have to live with the dogs.

[Horse poor]

Hope Rusty comes through without any complications.

I was into the sheltie thing for a bit and spayed everything because of the genetic mess the breed was in at the time. Stuff about one line that was lieing about what they had bred to. Surgery on tails and ears. I had one litter that had one pup go 18 1/2 inches while it's litter mate was 12inches. Both parents, grandparents and greats were all supposedly in size and moderate(14 to 15 inches. I hated being subject to what each person "interpreted" the standard to be. I decided it wasn't for me. Besides, not having to worry about an oops was well worth it. Oh, and all the cats are its also.

[BabyMay]

Ya, all my critters are its. Makes life much easier and quieter. I am sure Rusty will be much happier after this is out of the way. Let us know how it all goes.

[Rockin GR]

Holy Monkeys! I am reading this a little late, but I didn't know you decided to fix Rusty! He's such a pretty boy. But I've gone through the same thoughts about Leo. He's such an idiot when Lucy is in season. In fact, we are going through it right now. Good luck with everything. And I know where there's a pretty boy who would think Bailey's one hot chica.

[GoinToTell]

Idiot doesn't even begin to describe Rusty. He is a flat out terror. Lets say no pen is able to contain him. Chain link be darned he will peel it up. I know from experience. Who am I kidding...he is still a terror and been fixed a week Thursday. Apparently he doesn't realize it! He hasn't come down off his hormonial high. He is a pretty guy with an awesome pedigree (much like your Leo herding champions and show champions)but saddly we just had enough. I have to actually leave Bailey in the house right now...(in heat) b/c otherwise he still thinks he is going to have a rendevu.

Leo will either meet Bailey or Roxy the pup. I am still waiting to see how Roxy grows up. We are in the gangly stage right now. She has the best of both of their pedigree's and is a heck of a worker even at 6 months. Hope he likes fire-ie red heads...b/c they are spitfires!

By the way...he did come through his surgery just fine. He was a hurting solider for a couple of days....and definitly had a look of despair. He was not happy with us. Although he is now over that and is now a big cry baby because he can't "be" with his "friend" Bailey. He has even broke Roxy out of her pen. Except Roxy has a lot more of a herding drive than him...so she tends to make sure all the chickens are put away...then she goes and finds the eggs and helps her self. Naughty little girl she can be. Then she just smiles at ya....she really thinks she will get out of trouble if she grins at you. We are learning good looks dont work when your naughty.

No need for children at my house...I have 3 Aussies that are too smart for their own good!

[Rockin GR]

Wow, Leo's not quite that bad. I have on multiple occasions though, sent him to live with my parents for a couple of weeks. It was just easier. The first time I didn't, I was surprised with a very fat Lucy a few weeks later. So far that's been the only accident. But he has successfully dimantled my two wire crates over the last few years. But he doesn't dig out of his pen, so so far we're good. Lucy is in the back of the house in the bathroom. She's still got the be confined to a very small room, so it's working out. Leo just scours the yard when we let him out for where she's been. So it's livable this go round.

[GoinToTell]

He doesn't dig...he just uses his sheer strength to get out(or in). Even a wired and bungy corded gate...while it slowed him down....he still got out. The chainlink panels are on the porch w/ a wooden porch railing going around all three sides....he got in...so he was a man on a mission. Thats how the first litter came to be. It was an accident. He managed to get in the old pen. That was partially my fault. Pen wasn't "Rusty-fied". And after I called the vet to see about an Estrogen shot, they pretty much told me I am s.o.l I would have to live with it. After having the litter, I am glad the upps..turned out ok! But he definilty wasn't the same easy going dog he is the other 10 months out of the year. Laid back goes out the window and we get a terror in exchange O well in another week or so....we will hopefully get the old Rusty back. He is just a dork sometimes...but I still love him either way!