How to teach horse respect? (to a dog)

cascy · 08-09-2008, 04:12 PM

Anyone have any ideas?

I have a 5 month old mastiff pup.... He is large ( about the size of a "normal" breed large dog) but he is still VERY much a puppy...

Most of my other dogs have always had a "natural" fear of horses... But this pup has NONE.

Luckily, Jake is very patient, but he will just FLOP on jake's front legs, roll over and try to play, run under his legs, you name it!

I have to keep him penned up now when I ride, but some day he needs to learn to stay away from the hroses feet!

Not all of our horses are so patient with dogs, and I really don't want him squished, so if you have an idea, please help me out !

LuvMyMares · 08-09-2008, 05:52 PM

Sorry, can't help you in that dept!!! My dogs are rotten around the horses!

cook1745 · 08-09-2008, 05:58 PM

I'm not sure what to say either except keep the dog away from the horses till he is older?

Lady_MCSE · 08-09-2008, 06:07 PM

Aaaah, teach "horse respect" not "a horse respect" . . . I was wondering why you needed advice on teaching a horse respect?!?

As for the dog, well, I've never had to do such training, so I have no concrete experience.

But if it were my dog though, I think I would honestly do some "accidental" stepping on and kicking with my own booted feet. Dog flops down and I carelessly fail to notice, so step on a tail. Happens again, I carelessly fail to notice, and kick him in the butt - not overly hard, but enough to make him realize this isn't a good spot to sit in.

Sounds mean, but honestly, that's what you're trying to prevent, is him getting hurt. So hurting him on a scale of 1-10 more like the 1-2 range is way better than gettign hurt on a 9-10 scale by the horse.

And the "carelessly fail to notice" attitude is also key - you want to convey to him that it's just not a good place to be, and if he's smart, he'll come up with that idea on his own. If you approach it like a punishment, he's not going to know why, and just think that the human is out to punish him.

Horses&Soccer · 08-09-2008, 06:14 PM

I am no dog trainer by a long shot, but I wondered if starting with a good sit/stay and then getting him to sit/stay at a short distance from the horse then moving the horse around while enforcing the sit/stay would be a beginning. He's pretty young and has a short attention span yet. I'd start with really short lessons. Keep him on a leash, on the side away from the horse and keep reinforcing him to stay on your side away from the horse. I don't know, like I said I'm not a trainer, it's just a thought. We're going to have to work on this too someday.

BarnBum · 08-09-2008, 06:18 PM

Change your thread topic to Teaching a DOG respect !! You have HORSE on the brain !!

Can't help ya either, my girls are beyond spoiled.

PaintsQH · 08-09-2008, 08:31 PM

I am NO help at all as my dog barks and runs with the "herd"

They are used to him, never kick or chase him, and he will stand with them as they eat grass and follow them around. He wont shut up though.He barks ALL the time at them and its quite annoying

Im lucky to have had dogs as long as Ive had horses, so they are buddies
Can you tell by the pic they like each other?

Sorry to hijack your thread Cascy. How do the horses react to your dog? Some can be downright mean and visa verse.

cascy · 08-09-2008, 09:09 PM

I don't mind, pretty boy by the way...

Jake and spirit are very talerant of him, but brad's horse paint.... Not so much. He is a dog stomper at the first chance

mandelyn82 · 08-10-2008, 08:39 AM

In having the recent pleasure of working with Mastiff's (lol... 2 pups, momma dog, and a young male) I've come to the conclusion that they're more bullheaded than dumb, and they learn by experience more so than training.

With that in mind, I like Lady-M's idea. But with what I've picked up from the breed.. I don't know if the knowledge will transfer, because he is already comfortable with Jake.

And with him being a puppy... if a horse did threaten him... I wonder if he would interpret it as a game. Just in seeing how those two 7 month old pups responded to training.... everything was a game. It was really quite frustrating... because discipline didn't mean squat to them... food got them too excited... and it took a lot of time to get them to take me seriously.

prancingpony · 08-10-2008, 08:56 AM

I'm not a trainer either--but I really like Lady M's advice too. It makes the most sense. That is the same way I have taught kittens and puppies to stay out from under my feet.

cascy · 08-10-2008, 10:23 AM

Meet Mose, my none respecting horse dog

This was him about a month ago (so around 4 months old)

I've had mastiff's before, but they always came with that natural *horse is bigger then me* fear and keep thier distance.... Not this guy, He thinks they are just big playmates

LadyM's idea sounds like a good one, but he doesn't flop in front of my feet, just jakes....

And what I really want is him to have a little fear of the horses, because he likes to go with me to check fence and stuff, and if he just bounds out there and gets even close to paint, he will kick the snot out of him

*** Edited to add: He isn't always the brightest first off

If ya'll remember my puppy for fried himself chewing through the 220 air conditioner wires... that's him

I can't wait till he matures a little and leaves some of the puppy stage *sigh*

texas sassy · 08-10-2008, 11:40 AM

I had a Rott/Shep mix and the only way he learned was by getting all four feet stepped on in one day. My gelding was tolerant ---to a point. The pup had some sore feet, but wasn't really hurt. He always followed behind me when I rode. He was one that had to learn the hard way but he was great around the horses.

Bear Bait · 08-10-2008, 12:15 PM

I own and breed bullmastiffs and have 5 horses. Horse respect is a hard thing to teach any dog for humans that is, for horses its easy. Although there is some fear a well placed kick can cause damage it doesn't out weigh the dangers if left unattended.

There are several things you can do to help along the process. ALWAYS keep Rover on a leash at first. You need to find a distraction. With my female I taught her the command leave it. Be it licking, barking or even scratching during times I don't want her to I just say leave it and she does. Whenever Rover approaches the horse in a unsafe way say leave it and give him a smart tug followed through with the distraction. I used water mist from a bottle because Kenya isn't a playful dog even then so I chose something that would be of concequenses for her. She HATES getting wet. You can use a toy or ball, I don't recommend food. Do this for about a month solid. Do NOT allow him off leash time with the horses for the month. Confine him when you can't have proper leash control. He will be a massive naughty 2yr old soon. You MUST teach him better in EVERYTHING and EVERY situation.

After a month try him off leash for short periodes. The first time you say leave it to him, snap that leash back on and try again tomorrow. You will find you'll have to do it less and less. Bully's don't respond to negative re-enforcement. You have to set him up for sucess and focus on his accomplishments.

Riding with a dog is an altogether different story. Some dogs tolerate it better than others. My training for that is simple. My horse will kick my dog if she chases. I am OK with that. She has gotten a few solid kicks and no longer is a problem. Some dogs will chase no matter what. Mastiffs have an extrem prey drive. You need to see where your dog's drive is at. If he has a high prey drive it won't really matter what you do. He will always want to chase. Leave it works for this but not for long term. Long term solution is not to take him with you. My girl still chases my horses when I work in the round pen, or tries to anyways but I stop her right away.

Some people are dead against horses and dogs being mixed on the trail. I take mine for safety reasons as we have high population of bears and cougars. Mine are also trained to the degree that they are never a problem in ANY situation and the simple fact I am the only one that rides for miles so my dogs don't have the oppertunity to chase other horses.

PaintsQH · 08-10-2008, 12:37 PM

My dog has mastiff in him and he isnt exactly the brightest light bulb out of the box. NOT bashing the breed, just my own critter. Some dogs are just not as smart as others

Lady_MCSE · 08-10-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cascy

LadyM's idea sounds like a good one, but he doesn't flop in front of my feet, just jakes....

Yeah, I know, but what I meant was you go on about your business "fussing" with the horse (grooming, picking feet, messing with the tack, what have you - make something up if necessary), and that's when you "accidentally" step on him.

I R

PS - he's a real cutie pie! I love big doggies. And big horsies!

Bear Bait · 08-10-2008, 01:38 PM

Mastiffs are far from dumb. They appear that way but its not the case. As with every breed you have smart ones and not so smart ones. Mastiffs just learn more like a horse does than it learns like a dog. They are stubborn too which makes it a bit more of a challenge.

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08-09-2008, 04:12 PM
cascy Kid Safe Join Date: May 2006 Location: arkansas Posts: 6,072	How to teach horse respect? (to a dog) Anyone have any ideas? I have a 5 month old mastiff pup.... He is large ( about the size of a "normal" breed large dog) but he is still VERY much a puppy... Most of my other dogs have always had a "natural" fear of horses... But this pup has NONE. Luckily, Jake is very patient, but he will just FLOP on jake's front legs, roll over and try to play, run under his legs, you name it! I have to keep him penned up now when I ride, but some day he needs to learn to stay away from the hroses feet! Not all of our horses are so patient with dogs, and I really don't want him squished, so if you have an idea, please help me out ! __________________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. Last edited by cascy : 08-09-2008 at 06:27 PM.

08-09-2008, 05:52 PM
LuvMyMares Halter broke Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southwest Florida Posts: 160	Sorry, can't help you in that dept!!! My dogs are rotten around the horses! __________________ I Luv my 3 mare's-Cheyanne-Palomino Paint, Butter's-Sorrel Arabian & Katie Lou-Black AQHA

08-09-2008, 05:58 PM
cook1745 Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 3,499	I'm not sure what to say either except keep the dog away from the horses till he is older? __________________ Home of my sweet girl Cinnamon. Not fancy but she is mine!!!

08-09-2008, 06:07 PM
Lady_MCSE Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Shytown, IL Posts: 3,502	Aaaah, teach "horse respect" not "a horse respect" . . . I was wondering why you needed advice on teaching a horse respect?!? As for the dog, well, I've never had to do such training, so I have no concrete experience. But if it were my dog though, I think I would honestly do some "accidental" stepping on and kicking with my own booted feet. Dog flops down and I carelessly fail to notice, so step on a tail. Happens again, I carelessly fail to notice, and kick him in the butt - not overly hard, but enough to make him realize this isn't a good spot to sit in. Sounds mean, but honestly, that's what you're trying to prevent, is him getting hurt. So hurting him on a scale of 1-10 more like the 1-2 range is way better than gettign hurt on a 9-10 scale by the horse. And the "carelessly fail to notice" attitude is also key - you want to convey to him that it's just not a good place to be, and if he's smart, he'll come up with that idea on his own. If you approach it like a punishment, he's not going to know why, and just think that the human is out to punish him. __________________ Yes I can spell the way Webster tells me to. But why? I might spell correctly Tuesday thru Wensday tho.

08-09-2008, 06:14 PM
Horses&Soccer Started Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Warrenton, MO Posts: 2,788	I am no dog trainer by a long shot, but I wondered if starting with a good sit/stay and then getting him to sit/stay at a short distance from the horse then moving the horse around while enforcing the sit/stay would be a beginning. He's pretty young and has a short attention span yet. I'd start with really short lessons. Keep him on a leash, on the side away from the horse and keep reinforcing him to stay on your side away from the horse. I don't know, like I said I'm not a trainer, it's just a thought. We're going to have to work on this too someday. __________________ When life gives you lemons - find someone to throw them at!

08-09-2008, 06:18 PM
BarnBum Greenbroke Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sunshine State Posts: 3,609	Change your thread topic to Teaching a DOG respect !! You have HORSE on the brain !! Can't help ya either, my girls are beyond spoiled. __________________ Murphys Horse Law - A horse's misbehavior will be in direct proportion to the number of people who are watching !!

08-09-2008, 08:31 PM
PaintsQH Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,442	I am NO help at all as my dog barks and runs with the "herd" They are used to him, never kick or chase him, and he will stand with them as they eat grass and follow them around. He wont shut up though.He barks ALL the time at them and its quite annoyingIm lucky to have had dogs as long as Ive had horses, so they are buddies Can you tell by the pic they like each other? Sorry to hijack your thread Cascy. How do the horses react to your dog? Some can be downright mean and visa verse. __________________ My treasures do not clink, they gleam in the sunlight and neigh in the night

08-09-2008, 09:09 PM
cascy Kid Safe Join Date: May 2006 Location: arkansas Posts: 6,072	I don't mind, pretty boy by the way... Jake and spirit are very talerant of him, but brad's horse paint.... Not so much. He is a dog stomper at the first chance __________________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

08-10-2008, 08:39 AM
mandelyn82 Coming two Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ft. Campbell, KY Posts: 1,962	In having the recent pleasure of working with Mastiff's (lol... 2 pups, momma dog, and a young male) I've come to the conclusion that they're more bullheaded than dumb, and they learn by experience more so than training. With that in mind, I like Lady-M's idea. But with what I've picked up from the breed.. I don't know if the knowledge will transfer, because he is already comfortable with Jake. And with him being a puppy... if a horse did threaten him... I wonder if he would interpret it as a game. Just in seeing how those two 7 month old pups responded to training.... everything was a game. It was really quite frustrating... because discipline didn't mean squat to them... food got them too excited... and it took a lot of time to get them to take me seriously. __________________ "The more people I meet the more I love my German Shepherd"

08-10-2008, 08:56 AM
prancingpony Started Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,480	I'm not a trainer either--but I really like Lady M's advice too. It makes the most sense. That is the same way I have taught kittens and puppies to stay out from under my feet. __________________ Breeder of fine Gypsy Sport Horses http://www.freewebs.com/faewillow/ Equine Gifts at http://www.cafepress.com/faewillow

08-10-2008, 10:23 AM
cascy Kid Safe Join Date: May 2006 Location: arkansas Posts: 6,072	Meet Mose, my none respecting horse dog This was him about a month ago (so around 4 months old) I've had mastiff's before, but they always came with that natural horse is bigger then me fear and keep thier distance.... Not this guy, He thinks they are just big playmates LadyM's idea sounds like a good one, but he doesn't flop in front of my feet, just jakes.... And what I really want is him to have a little fear of the horses, because he likes to go with me to check fence and stuff, and if he just bounds out there and gets even close to paint, he will kick the snot out of him *** Edited to add: He isn't always the brightest first off If ya'll remember my puppy for fried himself chewing through the 220 air conditioner wires... that's him I can't wait till he matures a little and leaves some of the puppy stage sigh __________________ To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

08-10-2008, 11:40 AM
texas sassy Yearling Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 684	I had a Rott/Shep mix and the only way he learned was by getting all four feet stepped on in one day. My gelding was tolerant ---to a point. The pup had some sore feet, but wasn't really hurt. He always followed behind me when I rode. He was one that had to learn the hard way but he was great around the horses.

08-10-2008, 12:15 PM
Bear Bait Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Back In the Hills, Alberta Posts: 150	I own and breed bullmastiffs and have 5 horses. Horse respect is a hard thing to teach any dog for humans that is, for horses its easy. Although there is some fear a well placed kick can cause damage it doesn't out weigh the dangers if left unattended. There are several things you can do to help along the process. ALWAYS keep Rover on a leash at first. You need to find a distraction. With my female I taught her the command leave it. Be it licking, barking or even scratching during times I don't want her to I just say leave it and she does. Whenever Rover approaches the horse in a unsafe way say leave it and give him a smart tug followed through with the distraction. I used water mist from a bottle because Kenya isn't a playful dog even then so I chose something that would be of concequenses for her. She HATES getting wet. You can use a toy or ball, I don't recommend food. Do this for about a month solid. Do NOT allow him off leash time with the horses for the month. Confine him when you can't have proper leash control. He will be a massive naughty 2yr old soon. You MUST teach him better in EVERYTHING and EVERY situation. After a month try him off leash for short periodes. The first time you say leave it to him, snap that leash back on and try again tomorrow. You will find you'll have to do it less and less. Bully's don't respond to negative re-enforcement. You have to set him up for sucess and focus on his accomplishments. Riding with a dog is an altogether different story. Some dogs tolerate it better than others. My training for that is simple. My horse will kick my dog if she chases. I am OK with that. She has gotten a few solid kicks and no longer is a problem. Some dogs will chase no matter what. Mastiffs have an extrem prey drive. You need to see where your dog's drive is at. If he has a high prey drive it won't really matter what you do. He will always want to chase. Leave it works for this but not for long term. Long term solution is not to take him with you. My girl still chases my horses when I work in the round pen, or tries to anyways but I stop her right away. Some people are dead against horses and dogs being mixed on the trail. I take mine for safety reasons as we have high population of bears and cougars. Mine are also trained to the degree that they are never a problem in ANY situation and the simple fact I am the only one that rides for miles so my dogs don't have the oppertunity to chase other horses.

08-10-2008, 12:37 PM
PaintsQH Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,442	My dog has mastiff in him and he isnt exactly the brightest light bulb out of the box. NOT bashing the breed, just my own critter. Some dogs are just not as smart as others __________________ My treasures do not clink, they gleam in the sunlight and neigh in the night

08-10-2008, 01:38 PM
Bear Bait Halter broke Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Way Back In the Hills, Alberta Posts: 150	Mastiffs are far from dumb. They appear that way but its not the case. As with every breed you have smart ones and not so smart ones. Mastiffs just learn more like a horse does than it learns like a dog. They are stubborn too which makes it a bit more of a challenge.