English Mastiff pup

BeckysWylie · 11-16-2007, 11:03 PM

We got a new puppy 2 or 3 weeks ago. She is unpapered, which is fine since we will spay her anyways. She is a brindle English Mastiff puppy. We named her Gracie. Well, 1 week ago today, my son who is 5 was playing on his bike. Gracie decided to follow him around the front yard. My son accidentally ran him over with his bike, breaking her femur in what appears tobe 3 places and the growth plate in half. She was not a candidate for surgery as the bone was too soft for the screws. All the broken pieces are still where they need to be to heal properly, the broken pieces are not scattered at all.

We brought her home and are attempting her healing in a soft "splint" made of cardboard and traditional cast/bandaging. reason for the cardboard instead of a splint: the doctor didn't want a splint because there is no give and it would end right at the break site on the femur. We went with the cardboard because there is give to it, and the badnage alone caused her hock to feel almost like it fused! Her tendon has contracted and is really tight, so I wanted a little bit of "shape" to her leg so I cut the cardboard myself. So far it is working. She has full feeling her her toes, good sign!!

I was wondering has anyone gone through anythingliek this before with a large breed dog?? I am a vet tech and in all the years I have been in the job, I have not seen anyone who's don was not a candidate for surgery, nor have I seen the outcome of the wrap alone to heal the break. I just want some kind of idea on what her life might be like later down the road.

We were told 3 weeks badnaged would tell us if the broken pieces would stay where they need to be, or if the muscles contracting would move the pieces and heal them where they shouldn't be. So 2 more weeks and we will know if she is going to be fine or if she will still need euthanasia.

I will post pics tomorrow when she is awake. She spends all day in her crate except to come out and eat, potty and relax on the couch after the kids go to bed. She is not liking the crate very much although is crate trained and doesn't whine while in it, lol. She is 9 weeks old now. She still is sneeky and poops in the house after 10 mins of walking in the yard, lol. You blink while she is eating and she will be in th eliving room pooping on the floor!

Guess I should ask if anyone has any other housebreaking hints that might help me out??

sherriawright · 11-16-2007, 11:15 PM

I work for a rural vet and often he will soft wrap a break in a puppy. The bones are still growing and will fuse together because of their young age, is what he says. Works for me. I haven't seen any long term, but one is 3 years old now and doing fine, it's a lab however. He never used cardboard, just wraps.

tallyho · 11-17-2007, 05:23 AM

ooooooo...........good luck with your new baby, i certainly hope it all works out for the best.....

farmergal · 11-17-2007, 06:34 AM

Many years ago before the x rays I had a GSD puppy that got hit by a car while chasing a cat across the road. The vet said to keep her quite. I'm sure her fracture wasn't as bad as that but I'll never know. She was noticeably sore for many months but eventually got around fine on it. She had her days though when I think she would over due it.

Gracie has a long road of recovery ahead of her. I pray she heals well but I have to ask. Why euthanasia?

She has 3 good legs.

As for the potty. Could be you are taking to short of a trip out to potty but then again she could be like my Minnie and need to go out several times. I'll put her out and as soon as I bring her in she has to go out again to do her business. I ask her why she couldn't do that the first time.

Your girl is still very young. Keep after her. She'll catch on.

**seerfarm** · 11-17-2007, 05:57 PM

No advice, but sending my prayers and thoughts she can recover.

BeckysWylie · 11-17-2007, 11:09 PM

I will clear up the euthanasia part before I go on. The reason euthanasia is the only other option is: she was not a candidate for surgery as the bones are too soft. The surgery to try was going to be estimated at $3000. The specialist we spoke with said he could TRY the surgery if I was confident but suggested I take my pup to WSU and have them TRY but I would be out the money if it didn't work, like he suspected. In 3 weeks (2 weeks now) it will be healed, adn the 2-3 weeks after this 3 week block, will only strengthen where it healed. The reason for the euthanasia would be if the healing doesn't work, we would be looking at either letting her carry around a bum leg, or we would have to amputate it, another $3000 or so estimate. We cannot afford this. We don't have th emeans for that. if we do this, we are looking at 2 months of no house payment, 2 months of no bill paying and then we would have catch up afterwards, etc...

I did cardboard because it has some "give" to it if she were to fall on it, it wouldnot put pressure at the break site. I tried the soft wrap for 4 days but it made her leg so straight at the hock that it wouldn't bend at all (tendon was way too tight!) and it was over, she could not even get her toes under her, she was walking on the back of her toes. I am using the cardboard not as a splint persay, but to give some shape to her leg so she doesn't drag the back of her toes and cause damage. I would hope that eventually when the wrap can come off she wouldn't have major issues to deal with to walking on it, but minor.

She decided to start chewing on her bandage today. I figured with how fast she is growing I would change her wrap every 3 days, unless it gets nasty. Wehave had nonstop rain for the last 3 days, yuck!!

Here's an idea for the housetraining, lol. I took her potty, we were outside for 15 mins. She peed 5 times (little spurts as she was picking her leg up and running on 3 legs) and she pooped a HUGE pile, peed again and we went inside. I fed her, and decided to let her look around th ehouse since she was locked in her kennel almost all day, for a week now. She eats, drinks, goes in the other room and squats and POOPS right in front of me, maybe 2 mins after coming in from outside! This was by far the BIGGEST pile i have ever seen her squeeze out!

I did not get picks of my pathetic pup yet, i forgot. If she stays still long enough for pics, I will snap some when she comes out to do her final potty break before bed. She is sleeping now.

Rudy · 11-17-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeckysWylie

She eats, drinks, goes in the other room and squats and POOPS right in front of me, maybe 2 mins after coming in from outside!

The bold is the reason and makes perfect sense. I make it a habit that after a younger puppy eats or drinks they are immediately taken outside to walk for a 'potty' break. Very rarely do I run into a day when a puppy will not go within 5 minutes of eating or drinking. I don't expect much from their bladders and intestinal tract... they are not grown yet.

KitKat · 11-17-2007, 11:29 PM

Prayers for your girl to heal up quickly! Puppies are amazingly resiliant and heal quickly.

paso_lover · 11-18-2007, 08:10 AM

A couple of years ago my pyr (then 2 a wolf dog) got into a nasty fight with the b/f's dog (a gsd crossed with 1/4 WOLF). UGLY fight. Cougar got a hold of Chimos leg and broke it. Nothing but a bandage and meds was given to him. He did say though that because of his size we need to watch out for arthritis later on. If all goes well for your pup (fingers crossed) this is my 2 cents worth.

Kat · 11-18-2007, 08:25 AM

Rudy's right, take her out after she eats.

BeckysWylie · 11-18-2007, 05:53 PM

I do take her out right after she eats, she will potty again. Then she comes inside, even if she doesn't eat and drink, she will potty on the floor, usually poop. It is like she is laughing at me. Here are a couple pics i took of her lastnight.

farmergal · 11-18-2007, 11:31 PM

Awe! She is adorable! Poor thing.

Fancy's Mom · 11-18-2007, 11:39 PM

ohh i got that same vaccum...amazing isnt it...

I sure hope your pup's leg heals nice..Ive had several dogs hurt/break/fracture there leg and with being poor had to do the best we can and to wrap them (when i was younger).They all turned out fine..Maybe with a little limp or arthritis later in life but they were healthy dogs...

sundancer maiden · 11-19-2007, 12:45 AM

The price for the amputation sounds awfully high to me! Did you check around for prices? I really hope the leg heals and amputation doesn't become an issue, but do check around.
That is a beautiful pup!!!

Horses&Soccer · 11-19-2007, 04:28 PM

Very pretty puppy, I do so like the brindles. Like Sundancer Maiden said, I would also check around with different vets on the cost of amputation. That does sound high. Good luck with her, I hope everything works well.

DoBeSassy · 11-19-2007, 04:40 PM

When you catched having an accident in the house, do you scold her? Try this, pick her up, scold her. Take her out side, and if she finishes out there, give her plenty of praise. Then she learns that going potty in the house is bad.

ETA: very cute, I hope she gets better

BeckysWylie · 11-19-2007, 11:55 PM

I have called around, all gave me the same answer "due to her size, and age, and her potential size, we have to do it a certain way as to not cause furthur problems down the road." I got the same spiel each time and about the same quote as well. There was one vet that gave a rediculas low price for the amputation, but around town they are known for being called "the chop shop" and when I worked at 2 area vet clinics we often had animals come in whose sutures came undone, or who was done incorrectly and we had to fix the problems. I am not sure I want to run the risk of having to go to another vet to have it "redone". I went back and looked at ht epics i posted, she looks strange, lol. I guess I see her everyday. She looks mutt-like in the pics! I assure everyone she is all mastiff and it must be the angle because she has the big lips, and she is actually VERY thick built, but looks real lanky and weedy like in the pics. Not sure why. I will try and get her to sit still for some better pics tomorrow. When she is out she won't sit still long enough for pics, lol.

as to the scolding when she potties in the house, yes, i do scold her! I have potty trained a LOT of puppies and even adult dogs and did everything the same way, but for some reason she is not having it the same way I have done in the past. it is like she saves some "doo" in a reserve tank just so she can watch me get upset and clean it up. And to answer another question, No, I do not clean it up while she watches me! I have always learned that if they watch you clean it up they won't learn, even if scolded. When I scold, I only scold if I catch her doing it, after that, it is too late! I will turn her around and let her sniff it, i tell her a very firm NO and she will go outside to finish. 90% she will not finish and will run to the door and scream to come in, so sh eis back in her kennel. If she does finish outside she can run around inside for a few mins and she is back in her kennel. Please keep in mind if sh ewere not broken, she would be alowed about an hour of play before doing the potty thing again, but since she is broken she needs to stay fairly quiet and confined, so she spends a lot of time in her kennel.

farmergal · 11-20-2007, 03:23 AM

Think positive thoughts and positive things will happen.

It's easy to think the worst and worry. I look at those pics and I see a beautiful little girl named Gracie that hasn't given up. She's going to be fine I can feel it.

Don't be so hard on yourself and her. She has an injury that is going to put her behind in her potty training but she'll catch on in time. In the meantime you'll have to have patients and persistence. I've seen pups that don't get it until they are 16 weeks old or older. She is a bundle of energy with no place to go with it so be sure to give her plenty of chew toys.

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11-16-2007, 11:03 PM
BeckysWylie Weanling Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 340	English Mastiff pup We got a new puppy 2 or 3 weeks ago. She is unpapered, which is fine since we will spay her anyways. She is a brindle English Mastiff puppy. We named her Gracie. Well, 1 week ago today, my son who is 5 was playing on his bike. Gracie decided to follow him around the front yard. My son accidentally ran him over with his bike, breaking her femur in what appears tobe 3 places and the growth plate in half. She was not a candidate for surgery as the bone was too soft for the screws. All the broken pieces are still where they need to be to heal properly, the broken pieces are not scattered at all. We brought her home and are attempting her healing in a soft "splint" made of cardboard and traditional cast/bandaging. reason for the cardboard instead of a splint: the doctor didn't want a splint because there is no give and it would end right at the break site on the femur. We went with the cardboard because there is give to it, and the badnage alone caused her hock to feel almost like it fused! Her tendon has contracted and is really tight, so I wanted a little bit of "shape" to her leg so I cut the cardboard myself. So far it is working. She has full feeling her her toes, good sign!! I was wondering has anyone gone through anythingliek this before with a large breed dog?? I am a vet tech and in all the years I have been in the job, I have not seen anyone who's don was not a candidate for surgery, nor have I seen the outcome of the wrap alone to heal the break. I just want some kind of idea on what her life might be like later down the road. We were told 3 weeks badnaged would tell us if the broken pieces would stay where they need to be, or if the muscles contracting would move the pieces and heal them where they shouldn't be. So 2 more weeks and we will know if she is going to be fine or if she will still need euthanasia. I will post pics tomorrow when she is awake. She spends all day in her crate except to come out and eat, potty and relax on the couch after the kids go to bed. She is not liking the crate very much although is crate trained and doesn't whine while in it, lol. She is 9 weeks old now. She still is sneeky and poops in the house after 10 mins of walking in the yard, lol. You blink while she is eating and she will be in th eliving room pooping on the floor! Guess I should ask if anyone has any other housebreaking hints that might help me out?? __________________ If you want a glimpse into your future, take a good look at your friends!

11-16-2007, 11:15 PM
sherriawright Weanling Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pekin, Illinois Posts: 473	I work for a rural vet and often he will soft wrap a break in a puppy. The bones are still growing and will fuse together because of their young age, is what he says. Works for me. I haven't seen any long term, but one is 3 years old now and doing fine, it's a lab however. He never used cardboard, just wraps. __________________ Illinois, where our Governors make our license plates!

11-17-2007, 05:23 AM
tallyho Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Trappe, PA Posts: 1,157	ooooooo...........good luck with your new baby, i certainly hope it all works out for the best.....

11-17-2007, 06:34 AM
farmergal Seasoned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 4,926	Many years ago before the x rays I had a GSD puppy that got hit by a car while chasing a cat across the road. The vet said to keep her quite. I'm sure her fracture wasn't as bad as that but I'll never know. She was noticeably sore for many months but eventually got around fine on it. She had her days though when I think she would over due it. Gracie has a long road of recovery ahead of her. I pray she heals well but I have to ask. Why euthanasia? She has 3 good legs. As for the potty. Could be you are taking to short of a trip out to potty but then again she could be like my Minnie and need to go out several times. I'll put her out and as soon as I bring her in she has to go out again to do her business. I ask her why she couldn't do that the first time. Your girl is still very young. Keep after her. She'll catch on. __________________

11-17-2007, 05:57 PM
seerfarm Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Out with the Herd! Posts: 8,240	No advice, but sending my prayers and thoughts she can recover. __________________ "Year's end is neither an end nor a beginning but a going on, with all the wisdom that experience can instill in us". ~Hal Borland

11-17-2007, 11:09 PM
BeckysWylie Weanling Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 340	I will clear up the euthanasia part before I go on. The reason euthanasia is the only other option is: she was not a candidate for surgery as the bones are too soft. The surgery to try was going to be estimated at $3000. The specialist we spoke with said he could TRY the surgery if I was confident but suggested I take my pup to WSU and have them TRY but I would be out the money if it didn't work, like he suspected. In 3 weeks (2 weeks now) it will be healed, adn the 2-3 weeks after this 3 week block, will only strengthen where it healed. The reason for the euthanasia would be if the healing doesn't work, we would be looking at either letting her carry around a bum leg, or we would have to amputate it, another $3000 or so estimate. We cannot afford this. We don't have th emeans for that. if we do this, we are looking at 2 months of no house payment, 2 months of no bill paying and then we would have catch up afterwards, etc... I did cardboard because it has some "give" to it if she were to fall on it, it wouldnot put pressure at the break site. I tried the soft wrap for 4 days but it made her leg so straight at the hock that it wouldn't bend at all (tendon was way too tight!) and it was over, she could not even get her toes under her, she was walking on the back of her toes. I am using the cardboard not as a splint persay, but to give some shape to her leg so she doesn't drag the back of her toes and cause damage. I would hope that eventually when the wrap can come off she wouldn't have major issues to deal with to walking on it, but minor. She decided to start chewing on her bandage today. I figured with how fast she is growing I would change her wrap every 3 days, unless it gets nasty. Wehave had nonstop rain for the last 3 days, yuck!! Here's an idea for the housetraining, lol. I took her potty, we were outside for 15 mins. She peed 5 times (little spurts as she was picking her leg up and running on 3 legs) and she pooped a HUGE pile, peed again and we went inside. I fed her, and decided to let her look around th ehouse since she was locked in her kennel almost all day, for a week now. She eats, drinks, goes in the other room and squats and POOPS right in front of me, maybe 2 mins after coming in from outside! This was by far the BIGGEST pile i have ever seen her squeeze out! I did not get picks of my pathetic pup yet, i forgot. If she stays still long enough for pics, I will snap some when she comes out to do her final potty break before bed. She is sleeping now. __________________ If you want a glimpse into your future, take a good look at your friends!

11-17-2007, 11:29 PM
KitKat Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Okotoks, AB Posts: 1,188	Prayers for your girl to heal up quickly! Puppies are amazingly resiliant and heal quickly.

11-18-2007, 08:10 AM
paso_lover Seasoned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sudbury Ontario Canada Posts: 4,848	A couple of years ago my pyr (then 2 a wolf dog) got into a nasty fight with the b/f's dog (a gsd crossed with 1/4 WOLF). UGLY fight. Cougar got a hold of Chimos leg and broke it. Nothing but a bandage and meds was given to him. He did say though that because of his size we need to watch out for arthritis later on. If all goes well for your pup (fingers crossed) this is my 2 cents worth. __________________ "I wish I was half the rider she thinks she is" \"Some people feel compelled to cut off the heads of others in order to make themselves appear taller\" ---Paramahansa Yoginanda

11-18-2007, 08:25 AM
Kat Yearling Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 547	Rudy's right, take her out after she eats. __________________ “Too often man handles life as he does the bad weather, He whiles away the time as he waits for it to stop.”

11-18-2007, 05:53 PM
BeckysWylie Weanling Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 340	I do take her out right after she eats, she will potty again. Then she comes inside, even if she doesn't eat and drink, she will potty on the floor, usually poop. It is like she is laughing at me. Here are a couple pics i took of her lastnight. __________________ If you want a glimpse into your future, take a good look at your friends!

11-18-2007, 11:31 PM
farmergal Seasoned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 4,926	Awe! She is adorable! Poor thing. __________________

11-18-2007, 11:39 PM
Fancy's Mom Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 1,466	ohh i got that same vaccum...amazing isnt it... I sure hope your pup's leg heals nice..Ive had several dogs hurt/break/fracture there leg and with being poor had to do the best we can and to wrap them (when i was younger).They all turned out fine..Maybe with a little limp or arthritis later in life but they were healthy dogs... __________________ My horse is a reflection of me, wanna know me, talk to my horse!

11-19-2007, 12:45 AM
sundancer maiden Long Yearling Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Udall, KS Posts: 1,211	The price for the amputation sounds awfully high to me! Did you check around for prices? I really hope the leg heals and amputation doesn't become an issue, but do check around. That is a beautiful pup!!! __________________ You don't have to be crazy to be my friend, but it helps!!!

11-19-2007, 04:28 PM
Horses&Soccer Started Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Warrenton, MO Posts: 2,922	Very pretty puppy, I do so like the brindles. Like Sundancer Maiden said, I would also check around with different vets on the cost of amputation. That does sound high. Good luck with her, I hope everything works well. __________________ When life gives you lemons - find someone to throw them at!

11-19-2007, 04:40 PM
DoBeSassy Kid Safe Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 5,206	When you catched having an accident in the house, do you scold her? Try this, pick her up, scold her. Take her out side, and if she finishes out there, give her plenty of praise. Then she learns that going potty in the house is bad. ETA: very cute, I hope she gets better __________________ There is none so blind as she who will not see

11-19-2007, 11:55 PM
BeckysWylie Weanling Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 340	I have called around, all gave me the same answer "due to her size, and age, and her potential size, we have to do it a certain way as to not cause furthur problems down the road." I got the same spiel each time and about the same quote as well. There was one vet that gave a rediculas low price for the amputation, but around town they are known for being called "the chop shop" and when I worked at 2 area vet clinics we often had animals come in whose sutures came undone, or who was done incorrectly and we had to fix the problems. I am not sure I want to run the risk of having to go to another vet to have it "redone". I went back and looked at ht epics i posted, she looks strange, lol. I guess I see her everyday. She looks mutt-like in the pics! I assure everyone she is all mastiff and it must be the angle because she has the big lips, and she is actually VERY thick built, but looks real lanky and weedy like in the pics. Not sure why. I will try and get her to sit still for some better pics tomorrow. When she is out she won't sit still long enough for pics, lol. as to the scolding when she potties in the house, yes, i do scold her! I have potty trained a LOT of puppies and even adult dogs and did everything the same way, but for some reason she is not having it the same way I have done in the past. it is like she saves some "doo" in a reserve tank just so she can watch me get upset and clean it up. And to answer another question, No, I do not clean it up while she watches me! I have always learned that if they watch you clean it up they won't learn, even if scolded. When I scold, I only scold if I catch her doing it, after that, it is too late! I will turn her around and let her sniff it, i tell her a very firm NO and she will go outside to finish. 90% she will not finish and will run to the door and scream to come in, so sh eis back in her kennel. If she does finish outside she can run around inside for a few mins and she is back in her kennel. Please keep in mind if sh ewere not broken, she would be alowed about an hour of play before doing the potty thing again, but since she is broken she needs to stay fairly quiet and confined, so she spends a lot of time in her kennel. __________________ If you want a glimpse into your future, take a good look at your friends!

11-20-2007, 03:23 AM
farmergal Seasoned Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 4,926	Think positive thoughts and positive things will happen. It's easy to think the worst and worry. I look at those pics and I see a beautiful little girl named Gracie that hasn't given up. She's going to be fine I can feel it. Don't be so hard on yourself and her. She has an injury that is going to put her behind in her potty training but she'll catch on in time. In the meantime you'll have to have patients and persistence. I've seen pups that don't get it until they are 16 weeks old or older. She is a bundle of energy with no place to go with it so be sure to give her plenty of chew toys. __________________