Anyone Familiar With CKC Rules On Breeding Reg To Crossbred?!

[AlbertaGirl]

My healthy, wonderfully natured crossbred Retriever (Golden/Lab/Maremma/Heeler (only 1/16th)), Molly has been bred to a Canadian Kennel Club registered chocolate Lab. I've been told a few times this is a big no-no with the CKC, by a breeder/judge, and another breeder. I mentioned that to the owners of the stud dog, but they didn't think it would be a problem. I don't want to get them in any trouble when I sell the pups, does anyone know what the rules actually are on that? Not sure if the AKC would have the same rules...?

By the way, I have people interested in any puppies Molly may have, and will be screening potential buyers. I was very selective in picking a stud for her, and used 2 very healthy animals, with angelic dispositions. My personal belief is that there are lots of dogs out there, but good, home-raised pups are very hard to find! When I was looking for a crossbred Retriever pup, I called about 20 people, and every single one had already sold their pups! I had a couple people tell me they'd put me on their "list" for the next litter . I paid $200 for Molly, and had to drive close to 1.5 hours to get her. Only reason I got her is because they had 2 litters of pups, 24 in all! When we pulled into the farm, there were 3 adults (Molly's Mom & grandma), and some pups, and NOT a single one barked, they are such nice, gentle dogs!

[pvf]

With AKC the dogs must be purbred and registered. There are other registries know that don't care.

I wanted to add that they are beautiful dogs.

[AlbertaGirl]

Originally Posted by pvf

With AKC the dogs must be purbred and registered. There are other registries know that don't care.

I wanted to add that they are beautiful dogs.

Thank you!!! I think so too ! Can't wait for these pups! If I can't find them great homes, Molly will be spayed, and I'll keep all of them - lol!

[AlbertaGirl]

This thread is not showing on the New Posts, for me anyhow... since it's not getting any more views or replys, and it was only posted at 2:10PM today, I guess it really isn't showing? Hopefully this will bring it back up, because there must be some CKC members out there with the answer!!! - lol!

[Gee]

What information would you like?
The CKC registration is for purebreds only. These puppies will not be purebreds so.....what would you like to know.G

[AlbertaGirl]

Originally Posted by Gee

What information would you like?
The CKC registration is for purebreds only. These puppies will not be purebreds so.....what would you like to know.G

I know the pups won't be registerable, no question on that... I guess my original post wasn't that clear on the question - sorry! What I want to know is if the stud's owners can get in trouble for breeding him to my crossbred? I want to prevent that, and would like to use the sire's name, which they said I could do, but if they are mistaken on the CKC rules, I won't use his registered name anywhere... Is it against CKC rules to bred registered to non-reg/crossbred? What are the repercussions?

Sorry for the lack of clarity - hopefully I can get some answers now! Thanks!

[Carri]

If they have enough time to research that, I think they need to get a life! I don't think it should get them in trouble.

As far as the post not showing up in new posts, it will show up for everyone else, just not you, since you posted in it, it is not new to you... Does that make sense?

[joschrock]

CKC will never know because you won't be registering the puppies since they will be crossbred. Not to worry, all is good!

[AlbertaGirl]

Originally Posted by Carri

If they have enough time to research that, I think they need to get a life! I don't think it should get them in trouble.

As far as the post not showing up in new posts, it will show up for everyone else, just not you, since you posted in it, it is not new to you... Does that make sense?

Yeah, I agree it's dumb if it could cause a problem, BUT I was told it was against the rules-and-regs... Just concerned about someone reporting it, or some CKC higher-up seeing my ad... Not trying to be overly paranoid, but I am just confused by being told by 2 CKC breeders, one being a judge, that it was against policy. I would like to use his name, same as most of us would mention a foal out of a grade mare being by a registered stallion...

It's showing up under the New Posts for me now , for whatever reason, but that's okay - I'll take it - lol!

[Gee]

No they can't get into any trouble with the CKC. They will how ever create problems for them selves in the Lab breeder world. Breeding dogs is so different then horses.Reputable breeders do not breed to any thing but registered dogs belonging to there breed.Dogs are shown in conformation to earn there championship, this proves your bitch or stud is of a quality that meets with the breed standard. The purebred world is very against mixing breeds for the whole reason why they breed is to continue the life of the breed.Breeders strive hard to keep the lines free from in breeding and strive for good temperment and to meet the breed standards.
My first question is wether or not the lab owner has breeding rights? If they don't they can be sued by the breeder of whom they bought there lab.
If this lab owner has breeding rights;are they just a purebred dog owner who did not fix there boy and has agreed to breed to your gal? Then your ok.
If this person is a breeder they will be doing 1 of many negative things.Some examples are; - being shoned by the other Lab breeders
- bad reputation (people will question when they breed
a purebred litter, if its really a purebred).
- breeders won't sell one of there pups to them with breeding
rights, if at all...(it will be hard for that person to get new
blood for there program,and on and on.
The purebred dog world can be even so nasty as to shone and ruin a breeders reputation because you sold a dog to a puppy miller.
Now the only way I see your stud owner getting into trouble is if they bought there stud on a non breeding contract. Then, yes they can be sued!
A Ckc registered lab only means that both parents were registered purebreds and that dog is recognized by the Canadian Kennel Club as being a purebred lab.It does not mean that the CKC has control over the breeding of dogs.This suposed to be up to the breeders to control by selling all pet quality pups on non breeding contracts(to be fixed by a certain age). And by selling show quality pups with breeding contracts to approved homes.I had to champion my Min Pin in Canada and the U.S before the breeder would sign over the breeding rights.The Fresian world has some similarities.
Sorry for the length here! lol
If the lab owner has breeding rights on his dog, all is ok. Enjoy your pups and good luck find everyone of them happy loving homes.
I hope this helps and makes some sense as I am on my 3rd night shift in a row and burn't,lol.
G

[sugarsgal]

I don't believe there will be a problem with telling people the sire's name. Like said "pups can not be registered anyways" The big No, No is selling CKC or even AKC registered pups to a pet store, the member could loose their membership (so I was told) for doing so.

I think it's more the members that would have a fit rather then the club itself. Some CKC and AKC breeders breed for the breed and will Never cross their show dog as personal preference and for their dogs career.

[AlbertaGirl]

Gee - The owner is a CKC member, and has their boy advertised for breeding, but he is the only Lab they own, so they are not breeders, as per say. I have a copy of his papers, which list the breeder, and the name of the current owners (who bought him from the breeder), would there be anything on the paper about who has the breeding rights?

Originally Posted by Gee

The purebred dog world can be even so nasty as to shone and ruin a breeders reputation because you sold a dog to a puppy miller.

This came across a little funny... I'm not sure what you meant...

Oh and thank you! I will enjoy the pups, and as I mentioned, be screening potential buyers, to make sure they are good enough for my almost 75% Retriever mutt puppies!

[Gee]

Originally Posted by AlbertaGirl

Gee - The owner is a CKC member, and has their boy advertised for breeding, but he is the only Lab they own, so they are not breeders, as per say. I have a copy of his papers, which list the breeder, and the name of the current owners (who bought him from the breeder), would there be anything on the paper about who has the breeding rights?

Nothing is on the CKC papers, it would be a seperate contract.It is attatched to a health garentee.
You will have to ask the owners if they signed a non breeding contract. Reputable breeders sell there pups on non breeding contracts unless approved for breeding rights.This is something I don't understand of the horse world.I would be selling my colts gelded and fillies under non breeding contracts.I would only sell breeding rights or a colt stud to approved homes.This way I can protect my studs name and my breeding program reputation.

Originally Posted by AlbertaGirl

This came across a little funny... I'm not sure what you meant...

Oh and thank you! I will enjoy the pups, and as I mentioned, be screening potential buyers, to make sure they are good enough for my almost 75% Retriever mutt puppies!

I was brought up in the purebred show dog world. I guess Im just a tad snotty when it comes to, a purebred is a purebred.There is no such thing as 50% boxer ect.Its a mutt.That being said mutts are beautiful, smart and need just as good a home as any purebred.

[Gee]

If your a breeder, and you sell a pup with breeding rights to a puppy miller or what the members beleive to be a puppy miller, they ruin you. Even if you were unaware of this buyer being a puppy miller. Some of these breed groups are so tight they don't let anyone new in. You are ingnored at shows.You have to look over sea's for new studs.Basically you don't get to share in the breeders net working, which is very important. Horse breeding is so different from dogs its amazing! Its probably because horses are slow to produce and take till there 3 or 4 to be a broadmare.With dogs you can really breed your self up in class fast.Its actually been neat to see the differences in the two worlds and Im still not done yet,lol.

[SweetPea&Sage]

Alberta Girl,

In all honesty, I don't think you have anything to worry about. First off, if your friend had a contract with any breeder stating they couldn't breed, most likely they wouldn't say use my dogs name. Secondly, I would be even less worried about tarnishing this lab's rep.... something tells me that most people in the lab world are not going to ever even hear about him breeding a "mutt"...I understand why you want to state who he is, in fact, it is nice that your puppy people know who both parents are, for health reasons, for tempermanet reasons, and in general when you are trying to place pups.

Gee, some of your statements are specific to your experiences and have nothing to do what Alberta Girl is doing... it seems as if you are trying to scare her when she has nothing to be scared about.

I have had different experiences.... and you would be surprised... some breeders have more tolerance for crossbreeds than you think.... the networks are not always closed to those that breed outside the breed...

[AlbertaGirl]

Originally Posted by SweetPea&Sage

Alberta Girl,

In all honesty, I don't think you have anything to worry about. First off, if your friend had a contract with any breeder stating they couldn't breed, most likely they wouldn't say use my dogs name. Secondly, I would be even less worried about tarnishing this lab's rep.... something tells me that most people in the lab world are not going to ever even hear about him breeding a "mutt"...I understand why you want to state who he is, in fact, it is nice that your puppy people know who both parents are, for health reasons, for tempermanet reasons, and in general when you are trying to place pups.

Gee, some of your statements are specific to your experiences and have nothing to do what Alberta Girl is doing... it seems as if you are trying to scare her when she has nothing to be scared about.

I have had different experiences.... and you would be surprised... some breeders have more tolerance for crossbreeds than you think.... the networks are not always closed to those that breed outside the breed...

Thank you SweetPea&Sage!!! It's true; everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but when I was looking for Molly, I wanted a Retriever cross, but I was very picky in what those crosses could be. I guess it's a gamble in getting a crossbred, but it also helps to be quite knowledgeable about breeds (which I am). When I would call about puppies that said LabX, the first thing I asked was, crossed with what? So to me, and many other people out there, it is nice to know what a mutt's "pedigree" is.

Also, to again clarify - I am not a puppymill, my dog is not going to be bred every heat cycle, the puppies will be played with, really well socialized, fed well, given vet care, and as stated, sold to screened buyers. I think people deserve to be able to buy a nice, healthy puppy, that was responsibly bred - not just letting her loose, and having her come home pregnant - for less than the cost of a PB! I paid $200 for Molly, and $300 for this carefully selected stud fee!

[Gee]

Sweetpea-sage
In my 20 years of CKC dog breeding and showing experiences, I have never heard or known a reputable breeder to tolerate cross breeding.The key word is "reputable". I am very aware that there are breeders that tolerate cross breeding.In my eye's and the CKC's eyes this is a big no no..I am not trying to bring out the right and wrong on this persons post, nor am I trying to scare her. The labs owners are the only ones who should be concerned and that is if they signed a non breeding contract.From the sound of this persons posts, the labs owner did not buy from a reputable breeder.But she could ask them for interest sake.In the beginning of this post I didn't know if it was an actual breeder or just a reg non fixed male lab owner.As the story unfolded I found out.I guess I went on a bit. It is very hard for a person who knows the horse world and its cross breeding with ease to understand the dog worlds non crossing rules.<snip>

[VickiE]

AlbertaGirl: I don't think you will get into trouble. IF they thought that they would get into trouble...why tell you that you can use the stud's name?

See to me mutt or purebred, I want to know about both parents of the animal. This is regardless of species of animal. I want to know where that animal is coming from. So when is Molly due? They make quite the pair!

Can't wait to see the beautiful puppies. You do know that we will all demand pictures as soon as the pups are born...correct?

[AlbertaGirl]

Originally Posted by VickiE

AlbertaGirl: I don't think you will get into trouble. IF they thought that they would get into trouble...why tell you that you can use the stud's name?

See to me mutt or purebred, I want to know about both parents of the animal. This is regardless of species of animal. I want to know where that animal is coming from. So when is Molly due? They make quite the pair!

Can't wait to see the beautiful puppies. You do know that we will all demand pictures as soon as the pups are born...correct?

THEY didn't think there would be a problem with it, but they don't show or anything, they just own the one registered dog, and have just started breeding with him. It was me being concerned that they were incorrect, and not wanting to get such nice people in trouble of any sort, or having problems registering litters of of registered females.

Molly was just bred, the 17th and 18th, so I suppose there's a chance of it not happening, but I'm pretty confident about it, as they "tied" both times! The sire's owners are very excited about the cross too, they think Molly's great! I can't wait, and will certainly be posting pictures! No objections there - lol!

[VickiE]

Originally Posted by AlbertaGirl

THEY didn't think there would be a problem with it, but they don't show or anything, they just own the one registered dog, and have just started breeding with him. It was me being concerned that they were incorrect, and not wanting to get such nice people in trouble of any sort, or having problems registering litters of of registered females.

I don't think there will be a problem either...just agreeing!

Pictures will be a must!