CKC and AKC

**Range** · 03-02-2007, 07:13 AM

Okay, what IS the difference between the AKC and the CKC? I know, the letter A instead of C.

Seriously, though, I would really like to know!

wildcat180 · 03-02-2007, 07:37 AM

One is American, one is Canadian.

**Range** · 03-02-2007, 07:41 AM

One is American, one is Canadien, but...CKC also stands for the Continental Kennel Club. That's the one I need information on!

gypsy · 03-02-2007, 07:44 AM

As far as I know, the CKC is not as picky about what they register. I'm pretty sure they will register dogs from unregistered parent. AKC is now requiring DNA (I think). I think CKC is also the registry that will register the "designer dogs": puggles, labradoodles, etc.

wildcat180 · 03-02-2007, 07:50 AM

Well, here's a link to their site. http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Default.aspx

After reading through their registration requirements, I have to say, I'm not impressed. Here i thought it was just the AKC papers that were worthless...

Hum, maybe I'll register my pit bulls as a purebreed. All I'd need is two witnesses and pictures of the dogs...

Talk about high standards!

snickers · 03-02-2007, 08:07 AM

Like Wildcat said.
CKC is a shi$$ registry compared to AKC.
CKC is like ADBA they do not have to be pure bred dogs to be registered.
Those cropped up since AKC only registered pure bred dogs.

BYEARL · 03-02-2007, 09:54 AM

We have 2 dogs CKC and 4 AKC. Australian Cattle Dogs/Heelers.
I only look at the CKC as a registry to keep up with the dogs ownership.
Nothing more. Although our dogs are full Purebred, parents had no papers. They recquire photos, witness signatures. That is it. I see people ALL the time selling dogs you really cant figure out and they say they are full Daschunds, Cattle dogs with a little terrier thrown in.

JMO:
Most of the time from what i have encountered is the folks selling the CKC are breeders i would never buy from anyway, they are just out to make the money and not concerned regarding any health issues with the dogs. As much as people are trying to sale CKC (Continental Kennel Club ) dogs for you may as well purchase a AKC, much higher standards and a real purebred.

Example:
Our area for CKC ACD/Heelers $200-$400
Our area for AKC ACD/ Heelers $300-$500

Some of the weirdest dogs i have seen and you know they are not purebred. I think the CKC would register a Donkey as a Great Dane if you sent it in.

Again JMO, no offense to anyone.

wildcat180 · 03-02-2007, 10:02 AM

Well, I have to disagree about the AKC being "upstanding". That registry has issues of its own as well. It's pretty when Dateline or 20/20 does an expose on your registration practices, AND illustrates their point by getting papers on a litter registered to a DEAD Golden and a CAT.

Then again, I know someone who bred their white German Shepherd to an American Eskimo. The pups were fully registered shepherds. Figure that one out.

Another instance I can tell you about would be a man I know that breeds pit bulls. Generic pit bulls, not Am Staffs or Staffy Bulls, which ARE purebred dogs. Yet he has papers on every single one of his dogs saying their Am Staffs.

I've seen just as much CRAP come with AKC papers s any other registry. Until they start doing DNA that can determine BREED, this problem won't be solved. (To date, only a few breeds can be recognized by DNA...) The DNA that AKC is doing now is simply, "yup, that pup belongs to that parent".

Fact is, all registries work on the honor system. Unless they're going to start inspecting litters and parents prior to registration, people will still beat the system. (Which, by the way, I'm all for inspecting litters. If the registries took a more active approach, they're papers may be good for more than lining a bird cage.)

SweetPea&Sage · 03-02-2007, 10:28 AM

I completely agree with having the AKC DNA dogs, because someone like me who IS honest, gets lumped in with those that aren't because I breed AKC dogs. DNA'ing dogs is the only way you are going to get proof positive. It may cost a little more, but as a breeder, I'd rather pay for it, because we are assuring that the dogs are who we say they are.

- Marisa

BYEARL · 03-02-2007, 10:35 AM

I agree, people lie all the time. I guess if you know how to work the system lets say. They can do anything.
Too complicated to figure out how to be sneaky and dishonest and register non-purebreds as AKC. Dont have the time for that, and i am a honest person. If i knew of a breeder personally that was doing this yes, i would turn them in. I too agree, inspections on the litters and DNA is the only way to go.

Like all LIES it will eventually catch up and bite you in the

SweetPea&Sage · 03-02-2007, 10:58 AM

This is a really good article about fraud and the AKC. At least most people know what the CKC is about.

http://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/A...Is.Outrage.asp

Jadesmygirl · 03-02-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetPea&Sage

This is a really good article about fraud and the AKC. At least most people know what the CKC is about.

http://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/A...Is.Outrage.asp

No offense intended at all.. I agree with many of the author's points. But, I would have to say this is not an "article" about fraud in AKC so much as an editorial based on the authors opinions.
While there is always a place for editorials,and thank gooddness for freedom of speech, I think it is important to differentiate between a news story and someone stating opinions.
Sorry-a bit off topic!

snickers · 03-02-2007, 11:47 AM

I dont raise any more AKC Staffs, but the last time I had a litter, if a male dog was breed more than five times, it had to be DNA tested.

Nothing is perfect, thats for sure.

wildcat180 · 03-02-2007, 12:25 PM

I think it's a little more than just an editorial. The author states facts and referrences actual cases. Much the same as a news reporter would. The only difference is her manner of speaking, most specifically, asking questions. If it weren't for those questions, this article could have very been on the front page of any newspaper.

As I said before, the DNA the AKC requires isn't to prove the dog is this breed or that. It's for parentage, basically. (Same as it is for horses.) It's just so they can be sure any puppies registered with that dog as a parent is from that parent. It's still no "proof positive" that the dog is purebred. Think of all the people who have fooled the AKC with their mix breeds. They can submit DNA samples for those dogs and it won't affect their registrations at all. Any future pups will be registered, and no one is the wiser.

And reporting devious things, like the things I've seen first hand, gets you no where. They really do say, "we're just a registry and we rely on the honest of our breeders".

version1955 · 03-02-2007, 12:29 PM

So, Wildcat, tell us what you really think

A J · 03-02-2007, 02:24 PM

Well, by CKC's standards, I could get our three year rescue "registered".

Actually, as far as ownership proof goes, it is probably something I would consider, however, after looking at their website for 5 minutes, if I was breeding, that is NOT the way I would go (she's spayed, so that's not an issue).

Nothing is going to be perfect - I would imagine things are the same in the horse world

Does anyone here go with the UKC? We had actually seriously considered going that route when we had our huskies since we focused on working as opposed to show lines...we didn't end up doing it, but if I had kept on raising pups, I would have.

**Range** · 03-02-2007, 03:22 PM

Okay, what's the UKC?

I've noticed that the CKC seems to be focused more on performance and less on "halter" classes...is that the case?

A J · 03-02-2007, 03:28 PM

UKC is the United Kennel Club - from what I understand, they definitly focus on the working dog world - have sport trials, etc, and that is their primary focus (over halter dogs).

I'm pretty sure (although I don't know for sure) that their registration requirements are a LOT more strict that the CKC.

Editted to add: here is their website http://www.ukcdogs.com/Index.html

Their registration procedures seem pretty regulated, at least as much as AKC. They do have a limited registration for mixed breeds and/or unregistered dogs, BUT they MUST be spayed/neutered, and it is for the purpose of competing in the events that are UKC sponsored/approved - not a breeding registration.

Now, after reading that, I would be MUCH more likely to go that direction, even for my "unregistered" dogs - definitly a much more responsible organization.

doyle82 · 03-02-2007, 03:33 PM

What I don't understand is how do labrador and poodle mixes go from being "mutts" to "designer dogs"?
Who was the brilliant mind that got people to buy into that and make money off it?
I can remember when if someone had a purebed female "pug" let's say, and my neighbors purebred un-nuetered male labrador umm.....met up with her and had relations? (any other way to say it?) without the female pugs owners knowledge, the pug owner would consider her female "ruined" for breeding.
I have seen people sued over such things.

tuffsmom · 03-02-2007, 03:59 PM

There is another registry for dogs. This on is the APRI(American Pet Registry, Inc.) Here is their website.
http://www.aprpets.org/main/index.php

03-02-2007, 07:13 AM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,898	CKC and AKC Okay, what IS the difference between the AKC and the CKC? I know, the letter A instead of C. Seriously, though, I would really like to know! __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.

03-02-2007, 07:37 AM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	One is American, one is Canadian. __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

03-02-2007, 07:41 AM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,898	C One is American, one is Canadien, but...CKC also stands for the Continental Kennel Club. That's the one I need information on! __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.

03-02-2007, 07:44 AM
gypsy Coming two Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North Central AR Posts: 1,641	As far as I know, the CKC is not as picky about what they register. I'm pretty sure they will register dogs from unregistered parent. AKC is now requiring DNA (I think). I think CKC is also the registry that will register the "designer dogs": puggles, labradoodles, etc.

03-02-2007, 07:50 AM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	Well, here's a link to their site. http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Default.aspx After reading through their registration requirements, I have to say, I'm not impressed. Here i thought it was just the AKC papers that were worthless... Hum, maybe I'll register my pit bulls as a purebreed. All I'd need is two witnesses and pictures of the dogs... Talk about high standards! __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

03-02-2007, 08:07 AM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 8,991	Like Wildcat said. CKC is a shi$$ registry compared to AKC. CKC is like ADBA they do not have to be pure bred dogs to be registered. Those cropped up since AKC only registered pure bred dogs. __________________ " You cant fix stupid " Ron White Life is to short to argue with ignorant people.

03-02-2007, 09:54 AM
BYEARL Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hico/Stephenville, Texas Posts: 245	We have 2 dogs CKC and 4 AKC. Australian Cattle Dogs/Heelers. I only look at the CKC as a registry to keep up with the dogs ownership. Nothing more. Although our dogs are full Purebred, parents had no papers. They recquire photos, witness signatures. That is it. I see people ALL the time selling dogs you really cant figure out and they say they are full Daschunds, Cattle dogs with a little terrier thrown in. JMO: Most of the time from what i have encountered is the folks selling the CKC are breeders i would never buy from anyway, they are just out to make the money and not concerned regarding any health issues with the dogs. As much as people are trying to sale CKC (Continental Kennel Club ) dogs for you may as well purchase a AKC, much higher standards and a real purebred. Example: Our area for CKC ACD/Heelers $200-$400 Our area for AKC ACD/ Heelers $300-$500 Some of the weirdest dogs i have seen and you know they are not purebred. I think the CKC would register a Donkey as a Great Dane if you sent it in. Again JMO, no offense to anyone.

03-02-2007, 10:02 AM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	Well, I have to disagree about the AKC being "upstanding". That registry has issues of its own as well. It's pretty when Dateline or 20/20 does an expose on your registration practices, AND illustrates their point by getting papers on a litter registered to a DEAD Golden and a CAT. Then again, I know someone who bred their white German Shepherd to an American Eskimo. The pups were fully registered shepherds. Figure that one out. Another instance I can tell you about would be a man I know that breeds pit bulls. Generic pit bulls, not Am Staffs or Staffy Bulls, which ARE purebred dogs. Yet he has papers on every single one of his dogs saying their Am Staffs. I've seen just as much CRAP come with AKC papers s any other registry. Until they start doing DNA that can determine BREED, this problem won't be solved. (To date, only a few breeds can be recognized by DNA...) The DNA that AKC is doing now is simply, "yup, that pup belongs to that parent". Fact is, all registries work on the honor system. Unless they're going to start inspecting litters and parents prior to registration, people will still beat the system. (Which, by the way, I'm all for inspecting litters. If the registries took a more active approach, they're papers may be good for more than lining a bird cage.) __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

03-02-2007, 10:28 AM
SweetPea&Sage Weanling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: OHIO Posts: 420	I completely agree with having the AKC DNA dogs, because someone like me who IS honest, gets lumped in with those that aren't because I breed AKC dogs. DNA'ing dogs is the only way you are going to get proof positive. It may cost a little more, but as a breeder, I'd rather pay for it, because we are assuring that the dogs are who we say they are. - Marisa __________________ "KINDNESS MATTERS" MUSLOVEDOGS.COM : Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Cane Corsos and Mastweilers

03-02-2007, 10:35 AM
BYEARL Weanling Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hico/Stephenville, Texas Posts: 245	I agree, people lie all the time. I guess if you know how to work the system lets say. They can do anything. Too complicated to figure out how to be sneaky and dishonest and register non-purebreds as AKC. Dont have the time for that, and i am a honest person. If i knew of a breeder personally that was doing this yes, i would turn them in. I too agree, inspections on the litters and DNA is the only way to go. Like all LIES it will eventually catch up and bite you in the

03-02-2007, 10:58 AM
SweetPea&Sage Weanling Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: OHIO Posts: 420	This is a really good article about fraud and the AKC. At least most people know what the CKC is about. http://www.thedogpress.com/Columns/A...Is.Outrage.asp __________________ "KINDNESS MATTERS" MUSLOVEDOGS.COM : Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Cane Corsos and Mastweilers

03-02-2007, 11:47 AM
snickers Bombproof Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Twilight Zone Posts: 8,991	I dont raise any more AKC Staffs, but the last time I had a litter, if a male dog was breed more than five times, it had to be DNA tested. Nothing is perfect, thats for sure. __________________ " You cant fix stupid " Ron White Life is to short to argue with ignorant people.

03-02-2007, 12:25 PM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,130	I think it's a little more than just an editorial. The author states facts and referrences actual cases. Much the same as a news reporter would. The only difference is her manner of speaking, most specifically, asking questions. If it weren't for those questions, this article could have very been on the front page of any newspaper. As I said before, the DNA the AKC requires isn't to prove the dog is this breed or that. It's for parentage, basically. (Same as it is for horses.) It's just so they can be sure any puppies registered with that dog as a parent is from that parent. It's still no "proof positive" that the dog is purebred. Think of all the people who have fooled the AKC with their mix breeds. They can submit DNA samples for those dogs and it won't affect their registrations at all. Any future pups will be registered, and no one is the wiser. And reporting devious things, like the things I've seen first hand, gets you no where. They really do say, "we're just a registry and we rely on the honest of our breeders". __________________ My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!-Marquis de Sade

03-02-2007, 12:29 PM
version1955 Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Minnesnowdah Posts: 6,937	So, Wildcat, tell us what you really think __________________ gonna do what I can instead of complain and fret about what I can't Joanie

03-02-2007, 02:24 PM
A J Greenbroke Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 3,479	Well, by CKC's standards, I could get our three year rescue "registered". Actually, as far as ownership proof goes, it is probably something I would consider, however, after looking at their website for 5 minutes, if I was breeding, that is NOT the way I would go (she's spayed, so that's not an issue). Nothing is going to be perfect - I would imagine things are the same in the horse world Does anyone here go with the UKC? We had actually seriously considered going that route when we had our huskies since we focused on working as opposed to show lines...we didn't end up doing it, but if I had kept on raising pups, I would have. __________________ Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try.

03-02-2007, 03:22 PM
Range Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back of Beyond Posts: 5,898	UKC Okay, what's the UKC? I've noticed that the CKC seems to be focused more on performance and less on "halter" classes...is that the case? __________________ If it harms none, do what you will.

03-02-2007, 03:28 PM
A J Greenbroke Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 3,479	UKC is the United Kennel Club - from what I understand, they definitly focus on the working dog world - have sport trials, etc, and that is their primary focus (over halter dogs). I'm pretty sure (although I don't know for sure) that their registration requirements are a LOT more strict that the CKC. Editted to add: here is their website http://www.ukcdogs.com/Index.html Their registration procedures seem pretty regulated, at least as much as AKC. They do have a limited registration for mixed breeds and/or unregistered dogs, BUT they MUST be spayed/neutered, and it is for the purpose of competing in the events that are UKC sponsored/approved - not a breeding registration. Now, after reading that, I would be MUCH more likely to go that direction, even for my "unregistered" dogs - definitly a much more responsible organization. __________________ Try not, do. Do or do not. There is no try.

03-02-2007, 03:33 PM
doyle82 Coming two Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MA Posts: 1,743	What I don't understand is how do labrador and poodle mixes go from being "mutts" to "designer dogs"? Who was the brilliant mind that got people to buy into that and make money off it? I can remember when if someone had a purebed female "pug" let's say, and my neighbors purebred un-nuetered male labrador umm.....met up with her and had relations? (any other way to say it?) without the female pugs owners knowledge, the pug owner would consider her female "ruined" for breeding. I have seen people sued over such things. __________________ â€œThe wind of heaven is that which blows between a horses ears.â€

03-02-2007, 03:59 PM
tuffsmom Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 4,252	There is another registry for dogs. This on is the APRI(American Pet Registry, Inc.) Here is their website. http://www.aprpets.org/main/index.php __________________