Keeping Dog And Humans Safe

ahlihaff · 10-31-2009, 06:43 PM

Does anyone have suggestions as to how I can teach my 5 year old GSD male to not herd the horses?

This is becoming a huge safety issue for him and for humans. I am worried that he will get kicked and/or that one of us will get hurt by a horse when he does this.

There must be a way to keep everyone safe other than keeping Rhett inside.

singing tree · 10-31-2009, 07:23 PM

That is a very tough issue - it is even in your dog's breed name! I don't have any really good answer, but obviously dogs are taught when to herd and when not to all the time, so someone probably has a good method. I will be interested to read about it also.

NorthernHorseGirl · 10-31-2009, 07:47 PM

I have no suggestions, sorry.
We used to board at a place where they used their border collies to bring the horses in at night. It was a couple of years before my daughter's horse stopped going after dogs and trying to run them down.

pasomystic · 10-31-2009, 07:52 PM

I can only tell you what has worked for me. I teach all my dogs a very strong "LEAVE IT" which means "stop what you are doing [or thinking of doing]NOW". That can mean sniffing the ground, getting ready to chase a cat/car/ squirrell, or about to launch into herding the horse or cow or goat in front of them. I start with a piece of food on the floor and dog onleash as we walk near the food. I continue until we can walk past the food anywhere with no leash. Then I graduate to other distractions--and reward the dog handsomely for listening.

Since Rhett has established this behavior, it will be much harder to stop, but the principle should be the same. In the meantime, restraint in the form of leashing while around the horses, and fencing him away from them the rest of the time is all I can think of. Someone needs to be on the other end of the leash encouraging both species to leave one another alone.

Horselady44 · 10-31-2009, 07:55 PM

Hmm...that is a tough one...espiecally beings hes a older dog. How long have you had him? Has he always done it? He may have been trained to do it(if you havnt had him his whole life) and untraining a dog is alot harder than training one....alil history would be helpful

Does he try to herd them all the time?when your riding?when your working with them?

farmergal · 10-31-2009, 09:27 PM

The proper use of a shock collar can work. I used one on Dane when he was alive. My intention was to train him to not chase cars. It worked great. This was a bad habit that needed a quick fix.

I also agree with the leave it command but that takes longer to teach. I've been using that one on Abby.

But I'm also trying to teach her when it's not OK not really trying to stop her altogether.

You might want a partner to help you break him of the habit. If he's a smart dog he'll learn quick.

snwflk · 11-01-2009, 11:57 AM

There was one dog whisperer that used a shock collar only because he couldnt catch the dog at the right moment and neither could the dad as he was on a tractor an d the dog had already been RUN OVER once-- he was a tire chaser.. So in the RIGHT HANDS they can save a life.. BuT you must ACT the NANO SECOND you see it .. It has to be done before the dog starts running or its to late. YOU re-direct the chain of thought and break it.. You tube it or google it.. but you need to see how FAST he uses it.. Its worth using to save your dog.. He'll catch on pretty quickly and wont need it all the time.. but.. its something to consider.

ahlihaff · 11-02-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horselady44

Hmm...that is a tough one...espiecally beings hes a older dog. How long have you had him? Has he always done it? He may have been trained to do it(if you havnt had him his whole life) and untraining a dog is alot harder than training one....alil history would be helpful

Does he try to herd them all the time?when your riding?when your working with them?

I've had him since he was a puppy (8 weeks old). We've recently moved to different living quarters where there are seven horses. There were only two at our previous home, and he occasionally would try to herd them, but mostly left them alone.

Now he tries to herd them all the time when he is outside with me. The horses are everywhere. I interact with the horses every time I am outside, like if I'm going to check the water tubs, I'll take Ahliver (or one of the others) with me; but it's becoming safely impossible to do this with Rhett outside. He and Skye (black lab - who doesn't bother the horses; she'd rather bring dead things home) have a pen which I can confine them to. We live on 77 acres, and I'd prefer to take them out with me, but safety is a priority.

Thank you all for your ideas. I think the "leave it" command is a good one to teach - beginning with something small as you suggested. Is the dog on a leash when you teach this?

pasomystic · 11-02-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahlihaff

Thank you all for your ideas. I think the "leave it" command is a good one to teach - beginning with something small as you suggested. Is the dog on a leash when you teach this?

Yes, you have to have the ability to enforce "leave it", so you need the leash. Another corresponding method of teaching is to hold a treat in your hand in front of the dog, let him know it is there, when he reaches for it, close your hand around it and say "leave it". If he backs off, you praise, open your hand and say "ok" and let him have it. Wait longer and longer between closing your hand and saying ok--until there are several minutes going by before he gets the treat. Using both methods works well--shows him you mean it and can enforce the command. Do not take him off leash until you are certain he will not grab the food on the floor. Extend the training to outside and cats/ horses whatever, again on leash until he gets it.

ahlihaff · 11-03-2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pasomystic

Yes, you have to have the ability to enforce "leave it", so you need the leash. Another corresponding method of teaching is to hold a treat in your hand in front of the dog, let him know it is there, when he reaches for it, close your hand around it and say "leave it". If he backs off, you praise, open your hand and say "ok" and let him have it. Wait longer and longer between closing your hand and saying ok--until there are several minutes going by before he gets the treat. Using both methods works well--shows him you mean it and can enforce the command. Do not take him off leash until you are certain he will not grab the food on the floor. Extend the training to outside and cats/ horses whatever, again on leash until he gets it.

Thank you. I will begin this right away.

theoldbear · 11-03-2009, 12:43 PM

Herding behavior is strongly ingrained in many breeds. We had a Florida cur that would herd deer! Actually penned three of them (at the same time) in a barn!

The basic issue here is control. You have to be able to control your dog, to call your dog off whatever else it is doing/chasing/thinking and get that dog to pay attention to your command and drop what it is doing/chasing/thinking and heed you.

If it takes the shock collar to get the dog's attention, then it is worth it.

If the dog is at large, "free ranging" and herds without supervision or direction, this can be a huge risk.

A dog running horses or cattle in our neighborhood has a very short life-span.

We keep our outside dogs penned unless we are outside with them. They are turned out to run every afternoon while we are feeding and working with the horses and cattle. They have learned not to chase or herd unless they are needed to help move cattle. A verbal reprimand was all that was needed.

"Quit that and come here!" But they understood what the commands meant. And they listen! And they are rewarded for quitting and coming!

Our inside dogs (two Jack Russels and a micro-mini dachshund) occassionally get in amongst the horses and cows. The older Jack is recuperating from a broken pelvis right now. He got stomped by a horse.

Accidents can happen in a heart-beat. Be careful, and don't be afraid to pen your dog when you are working with the horses.

farmergal · 11-04-2009, 05:26 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNAOe1djDyc
There are many ways to teach the "leave it" command. Here is one using clicker training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4qgbmTf_Jw

farmergal · 11-04-2009, 06:24 AM

You will also find the "come" command useful. I often use this in combination with the "leave it" when Abby is herding and I don't want her to. I'll often catch her chasing the cats. I yell no bite (this is her leave it command) and then come. She is then praised. (Food reward has been replaced by a pat on the shoulder.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Q9SVFOWu4
another way to teach come....
I used this method to train my collies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqW27yGGZ64

10-31-2009, 06:43 PM
ahlihaff Seasoned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Western MA Posts: 4,562	Keeping Dog And Humans Safe Does anyone have suggestions as to how I can teach my 5 year old GSD male to not herd the horses? This is becoming a huge safety issue for him and for humans. I am worried that he will get kicked and/or that one of us will get hurt by a horse when he does this. There must be a way to keep everyone safe other than keeping Rhett inside. __________________

10-31-2009, 07:23 PM
singing tree Long Yearling Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hartville, Ohio Posts: 1,045	That is a very tough issue - it is even in your dog's breed name! I don't have any really good answer, but obviously dogs are taught when to herd and when not to all the time, so someone probably has a good method. I will be interested to read about it also.

10-31-2009, 07:47 PM
NorthernHorseGirl Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 509	I have no suggestions, sorry. We used to board at a place where they used their border collies to bring the horses in at night. It was a couple of years before my daughter's horse stopped going after dogs and trying to run them down. __________________ Some horses come into our lives and quickly go. Others stay awhile and make hoofprints on our hearts and we are never, ever the same. Anonymous Rest in peace Clint, I'll always love you and I'll miss you for the rest of my life. You were and will always be my perfect horse.

10-31-2009, 07:52 PM
pasomystic Coming two Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,935	I can only tell you what has worked for me. I teach all my dogs a very strong "LEAVE IT" which means "stop what you are doing [or thinking of doing]NOW". That can mean sniffing the ground, getting ready to chase a cat/car/ squirrell, or about to launch into herding the horse or cow or goat in front of them. I start with a piece of food on the floor and dog onleash as we walk near the food. I continue until we can walk past the food anywhere with no leash. Then I graduate to other distractions--and reward the dog handsomely for listening. Since Rhett has established this behavior, it will be much harder to stop, but the principle should be the same. In the meantime, restraint in the form of leashing while around the horses, and fencing him away from them the rest of the time is all I can think of. Someone needs to be on the other end of the leash encouraging both species to leave one another alone. __________________ We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are.

10-31-2009, 07:55 PM
Horselady44 Started Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 2,437	Hmm...that is a tough one...espiecally beings hes a older dog. How long have you had him? Has he always done it? He may have been trained to do it(if you havnt had him his whole life) and untraining a dog is alot harder than training one....alil history would be helpful Does he try to herd them all the time?when your riding?when your working with them? __________________ A happy horse equals a happy rider!

10-31-2009, 09:27 PM
farmergal Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 6,068	The proper use of a shock collar can work. I used one on Dane when he was alive. My intention was to train him to not chase cars. It worked great. This was a bad habit that needed a quick fix. I also agree with the leave it command but that takes longer to teach. I've been using that one on Abby. But I'm also trying to teach her when it's not OK not really trying to stop her altogether. You might want a partner to help you break him of the habit. If he's a smart dog he'll learn quick. __________________ Knowlege is out there, you just need to know where to look.

11-01-2009, 11:57 AM
snwflk Started Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,469	There was one dog whisperer that used a shock collar only because he couldnt catch the dog at the right moment and neither could the dad as he was on a tractor an d the dog had already been RUN OVER once-- he was a tire chaser.. So in the RIGHT HANDS they can save a life.. BuT you must ACT the NANO SECOND you see it .. It has to be done before the dog starts running or its to late. YOU re-direct the chain of thought and break it.. You tube it or google it.. but you need to see how FAST he uses it.. Its worth using to save your dog.. He'll catch on pretty quickly and wont need it all the time.. but.. its something to consider. __________________ Suzie Q

11-03-2009, 12:43 PM
theoldbear Yearling Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Arcadia, Florida Posts: 772	Herding behavior is strongly ingrained in many breeds. We had a Florida cur that would herd deer! Actually penned three of them (at the same time) in a barn! The basic issue here is control. You have to be able to control your dog, to call your dog off whatever else it is doing/chasing/thinking and get that dog to pay attention to your command and drop what it is doing/chasing/thinking and heed you. If it takes the shock collar to get the dog's attention, then it is worth it. If the dog is at large, "free ranging" and herds without supervision or direction, this can be a huge risk. A dog running horses or cattle in our neighborhood has a very short life-span. We keep our outside dogs penned unless we are outside with them. They are turned out to run every afternoon while we are feeding and working with the horses and cattle. They have learned not to chase or herd unless they are needed to help move cattle. A verbal reprimand was all that was needed. "Quit that and come here!" But they understood what the commands meant. And they listen! And they are rewarded for quitting and coming! Our inside dogs (two Jack Russels and a micro-mini dachshund) occassionally get in amongst the horses and cows. The older Jack is recuperating from a broken pelvis right now. He got stomped by a horse. Accidents can happen in a heart-beat. Be careful, and don't be afraid to pen your dog when you are working with the horses.

11-04-2009, 05:26 AM
farmergal Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 6,068	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNAOe1djDyc There are many ways to teach the "leave it" command. Here is one using clicker training. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4qgbmTf_Jw __________________ Knowlege is out there, you just need to know where to look. Last edited by farmergal : 11-04-2009 at 05:44 AM.

11-04-2009, 06:24 AM
farmergal Kid Safe Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 6,068	You will also find the "come" command useful. I often use this in combination with the "leave it" when Abby is herding and I don't want her to. I'll often catch her chasing the cats. I yell no bite (this is her leave it command) and then come. She is then praised. (Food reward has been replaced by a pat on the shoulder.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Q9SVFOWu4 another way to teach come.... I used this method to train my collies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqW27yGGZ64 __________________ Knowlege is out there, you just need to know where to look.