Esse is diabetic. (Curve done, numbers added)

[NoniMe]

Esse, aka "Mama cat", is diabetic. I've had her for years, and she was a feral, so we're not sure how old she is exactly. She's at least 12, and probably more like 16. So, when Malachi got his vax yesterday, I brought Esse in, too, because over the last while I've been noticing something's been "off."

They ran blood.

Her blood sugar was 463. Normal for a cat is 60-170. And she has sugar and bacteria in her urine. She's got an infection in her bladder.

AND THE DRATTED VET IS CLOSED UNTIL TUESDAY!!

I'll start her on insulin, and see what happens. Hopefully, she will respond well to tx and start being "normal" (which for her, is very much like a dog...). The good news is there is no kidney function issues yet, and no visual issues/neuropathy either. Thank God...

So...does anyone have a diabetic cat, and what are your thoughts/comments/suggestions? I'm a little...erm...surprised, but shoot, I left yesterday thinking she was going to have a diagnosis much, much worse. At least this is managable.

Best-
Noni

[kshnooks]

my Dad's cat was diagnosed with diabetes. It wasn't at the point where my dad had to give him insulin though, he managed him as best as possible through diet until he had to put him down, unfortunately. However, the cat was pretty healthy for about 2 years after the initial diagnoses.

For the diet my dad basically put him on a grain free, wet food diet. Good luck with your kitty, I hope she stays ok!

[merleliz]

Oh, I'm sorry, Noni, poor Esse! But you are right, at least this is something manageable...and knowing you, you will have every bit of information on feline diabetes published memorized by morning...

I'm sure Esse will be okay, you've caught it before it caused any other issues, and you'll do whatever has to be done in the way of diet and medication, so she's gonna be fine!

[AdoreDrafts]

We have a diabetic cat. He's doing well two shots a day and on Hill's W/D for both his weight issue and diabetes. I'd love to see him on a better wet food instead of this dry junk but the boyfriend isn't convinced about wet food being better then dry food and won't change it despite me showing information after information about it.

The boyfriend's mom had a diabetic cat as well who actually grew out of it and just recently died (I believe she was almost 20 years old). Ours is around 7ish and was diagnosed back a couple years ago. He sugar was dangerously out of wack. His usual levels are 18-20 which isn't liked but he barely ever goes below 15 despite uping his insulin level so we've had to accept that that is as good as he's going to get. Well over half of cats who are diagnosed with diabetes can grow out it. Unfortunately it doesn't look like Bosco will be one of them.

Its best to get the cat on a high protein, moderate fat, very low carb quality wet food. What food do you have the cat on?

What type of insulin is your cat on?

[NoniMe]

I just got the results over the phone...I have the appointment set for Tuesday after school. I've been reading about the diet, and we will be starting it (for everyone...) tomorrow.

Right now, they're on free-feed kibble (and that will stop tomorrow...and it will be crazy until they get used to it...) and wet food each pm. I will be posting more as I find out, but I know she will need injections (at least for now), and I'm looking at getting a bgm for her at home...I can do the monitoring, and the injections, not worried about that.

I have to say, I'm pretty upset...my poor Esse. Again, she's well into her teens, and she's got some other issues, but maybe she will be one of those who can "grow" out of it with proper diet and weight control.

I had a good cry, and snuggled on her for a while...and while this will mean a lot in terms of lifestyle changes, I think I can manage it...and maybe the diet change will be good for everyone, you know?

Best-
Noni

[AdoreDrafts]

Its really not that bad, just expensive and a pain in the butt to have one cat on a special diet when the other one is on a different food plus foster kittens who are on kitten food. Bosco is positive that we are trying to starve his 18lb self and tries to grab forbidden food when ever he can. he's also super good for his shots and knows in order to get his food he needs to get his shot first. He can be a bit unhelpful when testing his blood sugar but I would be too if someone kept pricking my ear and squeezing blood out of it.

If you can try and get PZI its the best insulin for cats and has the highest success rate of "erasing" diabetes when partnered up with the diet mentioned above. Lantus is a pretty good one too.

[NoniMe]

I will look into those, AD, thanks. My problem is I've got quite a few cats...so, well...everyone gets the changes.

I'm wondering about what to do when I go to Oregon for Christmas...I wonder how she'll do; I'll probably have to send her to a friend or board her or something, which will upset the others...

Well. That's 3.5 months away. Let's see what happens between now and then before I get all teary again...

Best-
Noni

[NoniMe]

Today, she got her first blood glucose stick and dose of insulin. She took it wonderfully - didn't even flinch. I practiced about 10 times on my self, so I could be sure I knew how to do this and do it fast (I do it on patients, but still...a cat is a lot different than a human).

She didn't even blink. I had a harder time getting her antibiotic pill in her than the glusose stick and the injection.

Her blood sugar was 474. She got 4 units of insulin. Now, to watch and make sure she doesn't go hypoglycemic.

I've also completely restructured her diet (and all the cats' diets...), and am trying more "wholistic" foods rather than typical canned food. The vet says that if I can get the numbers consistently below 180, then we might be able to start using a smaller and smaller dose of insulin, and maybe, get her off it completely.

She did well. I am very proud of her. She's such a dear one, you know? Just a dear.

Best-
Noni

[Reshea]

I'm late seeing this but I have a diabetic one as well. Her blood sugar was CRAZY high when we did the first test about a year ago. She was getting calcification (sp?) on her hind legs and going "cow hocked" and not able to jump that is how I noticed it. Watch the amount of water intake and urine output if you can, that is another tip off if things get worse. My cat is unfortunately not one to grow out of it I don't think. Again, I agree high protien low carb, I have mine on free feed dry (as she has always been free feed and my vet said to let her have it as she wants she will actually help regulate herself) she gets wet in the evenings with her shot. We started low with 1 unit twice a day and went up from ther testing every week. We got her to two units twice a day. She hovers around 200 but with another unit my vet is worried she will drop too low.

Now for the good part!! She comes to me for her shots now, she knows it makes her feel better. Also, she is now jumping twice as high as she was when she was first diagnosed as the insulin is helping her to reabsorb some of the calcium on her back tendons. She puts both dogs in their place on a regular basis and loves her life. My vet said if she keeps doing well she will lead a long full life as she is only 10 yrs old.

It is managable and with time it will become second nature for you to give the shots. Sammy is on Vetsulin, it was orginally formulated for dogs but they now have a cat formula. Sammy was the first one my vet put on it, and I was willing to give it a try since it is only $30 a vial. She has done very well with it.

Sorry for the novel. Good luck with your kitty!!! PM me if I can be of any other help to you.

[NoniMe]

The best news on the meter this morning...162!! That's the lowest I've seen it ever. We've changed diet, and I've been giving her insulin and getting BS numbers before she eats, and it seems to be bringing it into a decent (still slightly high, but nothing like it was) range. I have a call into my vet because I didn't give her insulin this morning because 4U would've really been a problem for her...and I don't have a sliding scale.

She has more energy - she's been wrestling with the kitten, and both are in cat heaven. She's not hogging the water dish; she's up and around, and being the Mama Cat I know and love. She's also getting abx because of a bacterial infection, pills once a day.

She's been sooooo good about me poking her ear for blood and shooting insulin, and getting a pill each night. She is the most compliant cat, and is really just taking this all in stride. Of course, I sneak the insulin when she's eating - just lift the scruff and shoot - and she doesn't even stop eating. The ear poke is a bit harder, but she's getting pretty good with that, too. I rub her ears (like a massage), get the blood flowing, and then poke...grab the drop, and let her go. Sometimes, she doesn't leave my lap, just wants more ear rubbing. LOL.

I'm pretty happy with this. One week into insulin, and she's got decent numbers. Maybe there's hope for her after all?

Best-
Noni

[merleliz]

Okay, translate for me...

"BS numbers"? I'm assuming that doesn't mean numbers?

What is a 4U...not a texting abbreviation for "for you", I know...

Congrats on getting her better, she is in good capable hands, so I know she will live out her optimum life span with you, happy, content and well cared for.

When I die, can I come back as one of your cats?

[NoniMe]

Yes, you can, Merle. LOL.

BS = blood sugar, an indication of how well/poorly her body is using sugar. The higher number = the worse the body uses sugar (it just sits around in the blood...insulin is needed to bring the blood into the cells for energy).

Average for a cat is to have a BS of 60-120 (reports vary). So for her, a BS 162 is good, compared to 474 or 502.

U = units of insulin needed to bring the BS under control. Most insulins have a sliding scale (can't think of one which doesn't) that allow the user to decide how much to give. Per the Dr., when Esse is in the 400s, she gets 4 units of insulin injected into her body to help move the sugar into the cells for energy conversion.

Problem is, he didn't give me any idea what to do with BS of 162...and I am not going to give her an overdose of insulin; that can create as many problems as not having any insulin in the first place.

As for being in good, capable hands...well, I'm just trying my best. I am getting very skilled (and quick) about earsticking for a drop of blood for the monitor, and even more quick and skilled at drawing insulin up and injecting it; she doesn't even flinch with the injections, but she gets a bit fidgety with the ear sticks...

But I'm doing my best...and hopefully, we can get stabilized and consistent with her BS.

Hope that helps...

Best-
Noni

[NoniMe]

She was 162 yesterday morning, so I skipped her insulin. Last night, she was 502. Gave her insulin, 4 U.

This morning, she's at 127, so I'm skipping her insulin again. That's a "normal" level of BS, so putting insulin in at that level will cause hypoglycemia which can kill her. So I'll just not shoot this morning. I wonder what numbers I'll get tonight when I get home?

These numbers are kinda confusing to me...I don't quite know what to make of it. I called the vet yesterday, and he didn't call back; I'll call again today, and hopefully get some answers.

I'm very glad she's got "normal" numbers, but the high spike yesterday evening was concerning. I wonder if she'll do that again today? And how to prevent it?? That's the question, it seems...

Best-
Noni

[Reshea]

Hmmm....the spike is wierd, I wonder if she "ran out" during the day causing the spike. I am by no means a specialist here, at least you can do the BS test at home Sammy won't let me anywhere near ears for a stick as she has chronic ear infections and it is a fight just to get cleaning solution in. I have to take her to the vet every few weeks to have a test done, it takes 3 people to get it. I know my vet likes for me to bring her in for a BS test in the middle of the day about half way between shots.

I'm interested to hear what your vet says about the spike.

[merleliz]

Noni, hope the vet has some answers...prayers for her that he can find a "maintenance" level dosage...thinking of you, my friend!

[NoniMe]

Thanks, you guys.

The vet wants me to do a curve - insulin injections, and BS testing every two hours until the next dose - to see what's going on. They didn't give me a sliding scale...I really wanted one, too. I'm pretty ticked at the vet's right now - I never got the call back, and had to call today at study group. Not something I wanted to spend 45 minutes on the phone doing instead of studying, but that's all right...

I'm thinking you're right, Reshea...she's running out sometime after a 14 hour period. The good part of that means that it looks like her diet change and maybe getting a different dosage schedule will be better for her...the insulin I'm using peaks and is metabolized after about 4-5 hours, so that's perhaps 6-10 hours of her own body working to get the sugars regulated.

At least, that's what I'm hoping is happening...something sure is, you know? Something sure is.

We'll see how the numbers look at breakfast tomorrow...

Best-
Noni

[Reshea]

Glad to hear you are getting to the bottom of it, darn vet!! This is serious, how dare they not call you back. That just irks me.

I wish you continued good luck! Keep us updated on her, BTW pics of the adorable, and very patient Esse would be welcome .

Let me know if I can be of anymore help.

[NoniMe]

Reshea, you can figure out the weird numbers....LOL.

This morning? She was 102. It's so weird she's "normal" in the morning but very high in the evening...

The vet said that I was to NOT give any insulin if she's under 300...which irks me. I mean, that's a bit of a long spread between "normal" and 300, but the vet doesn't want me to cover that? I am confused...so I'll be doing a curve this weekend - I think that will tell me far more than I know right now. But it's gonna be tough, you know? But maybe the numbers curve will tell me more about dosage, timing, or something...I'm hoping, at least.

As for pictures, I should have some somewhere...or I'll take some this weekend and post up. Deal? She's a dilute calico, and just one of the most patient, dear cats around.

Best-
Noni

[Reshea]

Ok, so I read back through the thread, and got an idea. How much wet food are you giving her in the evening? Are you giving her dry as well in that feeding? Is she able to free feed throughout the day or are you keeping everyone on a feeding schedule? My thought is that if there is extra food in the evening along with the insulin it is really droping her numbers so she is well within normal in the morning. Kind of like a human having a snickers bar with their insulin shot.

I would discuss this with the vet but Sammy does free feed on dry and she only gets a couple of spoonfuls of wet in the evening really just a small treat for her. My vet says she actually will regulate herself on a small scale through the day with the food. As for not giving insulin when there is anything under 300 my vet is the same way, sammy hovers around 200-250 and she doesn't want to increase the dosage unless she starts going over 300 consistantly.

Hang in there Noni the curve will really help, I got lucky and didn't have to do that with Sammy and of course I probably wouldn't have survived sticking her in the ear every two hours. That said it did take almost 3 months to get Sammy regulated and we went in twice a week for BS draws.

Now that I think of it when I first put her on the insulin her BS dropped fairly quickly (well within normal) then came back up and leveled out, not sure if their bodies have to "get use" to having it. Just another random thought. Like I said I'm no specialist.

Sorry again for the novel, I look forward to seeing pics of "momma kitty".

[NoniMe]

So, I was able to arrange my schedule to do a curve yesterday...here are her numbers.

6:15 am: 560 blood sugar, +4 units insulin
8:15 am: 534 blood sugar, -26 points (+2 hrs injection)
10:15 am: 320 blood sugar, -214 points. (+4 hrs injection)
12:00 pm: 282 blood sugar, -48points (+6 hrs injection)
2:40 pm: 183 blood sugar, -99 points (+8 hrs 30 min. injection)
4:40 pm: 202 blood sugar, +19 points (+10 hr 30 min injection)
6:30 pm: 182 blood sugar, -20 points (+12 hr, 15 min injection)
8:05 pm: 283 blood sugar, +101 points (+14 hours injection)

She is on Humulin N, which is an intermediate acting insulin. She tracks along the human metabolisim scale, but not the cat scale - in other words, she is getting a large drop between hours 2-4, and it continues to drop for the next 4 hours, seems to level off, and then rises about 12-14 hours post injection. That matches what happens in humans. The cat metabolism is faster, and so the times should be shortened...but they're not.

I am thinking that perhaps she needs something that is an immediate action insulin...those numbers were scary-high for a while there...and I didn't see the drop I'd hoped for after injection.

I'll drop the results off at the vets today, and see what they have to say about it. And I'll poke her a few times today and see how the numbers correlate with yesterday's time, too...that might give me an idea as to what is going on with her own insulin production...

Best-
Noni