Opinions on this horse & pedigree

reiningfan · 09-04-2008, 09:14 PM

I am wondering if any of you have any opinions on his pedigree? He's a stallion prospect. The picture isn't great. I'll get a new one tomorrow. Also, sorry about how big the pedigree is. I tried to resize it, but it didn't want to work.

lopintoo · 09-04-2008, 09:20 PM

I love many of the horses in his pedigree. Have his sire and dam been shown? Do they have any earnings?

reiningfan · 09-04-2008, 09:24 PM

His sire has NCHA earnings. He's only lightly shown, as there are really not many cuttings around here. Playin In Lightnin's dam was also a money earner.
His dam was finished, but sold before she was shown as a cutter. She was shown open shows for a bit, then died of West Nile the same year this guy was born.

ThorArb · 09-04-2008, 10:08 PM

Love the pedigree on this guy! It be really great if his parents did a little more but hey, he's definitely got the genetics behind him. Seems nicely built from what I could tell. He will make a lovely stallion prospect.

lopintoo · 09-04-2008, 10:24 PM

First and foremost conformation and disposition are the biggest things we look for. It doesn't matter how well they are bred if he is conformationally defective or hard to get along with. This colt looks pretty nice. I would like to see better pictures of his legs to be sure.

In your area there may not be as many cow horses so it may be a little easier to get outside breedings. In this area the cowhorse business is very competitive.

For us to consider a colt as a stallion prospect pedigree wise, (talking cowhorses here) the sire needs to have considerable earnings or if he is young without alot of earnings he currently be real hot, up -n- coming in the show pen. It helps considerably if the colt's dam has earnings. If she does not then her sire needs to have big earnings and she have a very strong dam line. The dam line on either side needs to be strong, especially as producers. Many of the big time names are on his last line of the papers, they will fall off his colts papers. That is another thing to think about.

If the sire of this colt is so-so in the show pen or someone has him that is not promoting him I would think twice about him. Not all great sires came from proven parents, but it sure helps to have a well known sire/dam when promoting a stallion. I believe ANY stallion regardless of parentage should prove his worth of being a breeding stallion in some way or another. It is just a leg up to have proven parents to start with when standing a stallion. In this area the cow horse business is really competitive so you have to have a horse that will stand out. We have 3 yr old colts who's sire has won over $144,000 and out of money earning daughters of Doc Hickory and Colonel Freckles. Even with that they will have to prove themselves before being bred. To get outside breedings these guys will have to turn the heads of prospective breeders.

Your area may not be as competitive as ours. This colt may be perfect for your needs. I love his pedigree and would expect him to be a performer. I will say though, that much cow horse in one can make them a little hotter. Not always when handling them on the ground, but definetly when riding. Many of ours are sweethearts, but they have a really BIG motor.

I'll go ahead and mention this as I know someone will...has he been HERDA tested?

barnbum2106 · 09-04-2008, 10:31 PM

I'm horrible with conformation...but I LOVE the pedigree. My stud is a greatgrandson of Freckles Playboy too.

nrhareiner · 09-04-2008, 10:51 PM

Over all strong pedigree in all 4 lines. My big things is that for a breeding stallion his sire is weak plus it sounds like he is standing in your area. My thought is if you like the horse go to the sorse. So if I was a mare owner and liked your boy and his sire was close too I would probable go look at him too so you are not bring in anything new. I know for me when I am looking that is one thing I look for. I want to bring in something new to my area. Something that people can not easally get locally and would need to ship semen to get those lines.

In that picture he looks nice. Good hip and I like the way he ties in at the shoulder. Should have a nice low head set and nice balanced stop.

I am not sure what your major considerations are when looking at differant prospects. For me I would rather have 1 really really nice prospect even if I have to pay what I would for 3 or 4. By the time you put all the cost of finisheing one for the show pen you will be further a head.

If his price is low and you feel you can get him in to the show ring with minimal cost and if he dose not pan out and you can get your $$ back selling him as a show gelding them it maybe worth the risk. Only you can answer that question.

Heidi

lopintoo · 09-04-2008, 10:56 PM

nrha...

Very good point. We couldn't stand a horse if his sire was right down the road either. That was the whole point for us getting a son of Doc Quixote...not one on every block.

reiningfan · 09-05-2008, 07:54 AM

These bloodlines are very popular in my area right now.
We have 2 daughters of his right now. They belong to my daughter. And the gelding in my avatar is also by him and owned once again by my daughter. We really like them. They are all full siblings.
What I'd really like to do is geld the horse and ride him. Then hand him over to my son to show. He's got a great disposition.

nrhareiner · 09-05-2008, 09:01 AM

Now as a gelding prospect I would say go for it. He looks to be built well solid so he should hold up will and stay sound that is a big one for me. Cassie has been in training and showing for 4 almost 5 years and never been lame. To me that is a big deal in a breeding horse and even so in a gelding. Her full brother is a Gelding and is I want to say 3 years older started as a 2yo by Mcquay and shown by Mindy in the Non Pro division won the Tradition finished 4th at the futurity and I think she also showd him quite a bit his 4yo year then was sold to anouther Non Pro who kept on showing him and he is still being shown to this day and he has not had any problems. So I like this and want it in my horses. He looks like he will do well in this area. Plus if you have others by this stallion and like them and do well with them in every area I would say unless they are asking big money for him go for it.

Heidi

reiningfan · 09-05-2008, 09:39 AM

I'd be getting him for the cost of gelding. The ring the testicle goes through on his left side I believe, is very large and the testicle can go up and down. The vet would like to do it as a surgical procedure and close that up so he doesn't get a hernia type deal going on.
He is living in my barn right now. He's got a real pretty head, but a little long in the body. I'll go snap some pics once he's done his breakfast. He has zero muscle tone right now cause he has been stall kept since the beginning of April.

nrhareiner · 09-05-2008, 10:26 AM

Sounds like a deal to me. Get him going and trained and he should make a nice show horse for your son.

I know about musle tone. I need to get some new pictures of Te but he has not been worked all summer. He has a lot of muscle but if you go up to him and push on the muscle it shakes like a boul of jelly. It is getting late so if I am going to get new pictures for next year I need to do it soon.

As for him being long in the back. That is not something I really worry about unless it is really bad. If you look at the Dun Its they tend to be long too and look how they work and stop.

Heidi

lopintoo · 09-05-2008, 11:16 AM

Oops, somehow I posted twice.

lopintoo · 09-05-2008, 11:18 AM

As a gelding, I love the pedigree. If you already have siblings that you like, I'd say go for it then. Our Quixote stallion is a little long in the back and he can fold up and turn around just as good as or better than some of the shorter horses. To me, it all depends on the horse and how the rest of him is put together. A cutting trainer once told me given a shorter horse or a longer horse he would take the longer one because they are more flexible through the rib cage than a shorter one. That is why they tend to move and bend easier, but they have to be strong in the hindquarters and in their underline (belly). This colt looks like he ought to be plenty strong enough. I like him, especially for a gelding.

Crookedblaze · 09-05-2008, 11:19 AM

Whooowhee, I would love to have a horse with that pedigree. Talk about cowhorse bred. He's gorgeous, too. I can't wait to see more picture.

PaintsQH · 09-06-2008, 10:37 PM

Im just curious as to why you initially posted him as a stallion prospect.. He wouldnt be a prospect at all if his testicles go up and down and needs surgery. This doesnt make much sense to me. Do you already own him

Drafty · 09-07-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaintsQH

Im just curious as to why you initially posted him as a stallion prospect.. He wouldnt be a prospect at all if his testicles go up and down and needs surgery. This doesnt make much sense to me. Do you already own him

Everyone has a slightly different definition of horse lingo since there is no Webster for horse lovers. Perhaps what the op meant was that it is a stallion that is a prospect?

reiningfan · 09-07-2008, 08:49 PM

The ring that should keep the testicle down is very large and he can "suck one up" a bit. He's got both testicles. They are both normal, he can just suck one a bit of the way up. Not all the way into his abdominal cavity, but higher than it should go by about 1 1/2 inches. He's not a cryporchid, just got a large ring. The vet is just worried that some intestine could come down easier due to the larger diametre of the ring. He wants to make sure that doesn't happen.
I don't own him myself, but he does live here.
By stallion prospect, I meant as a prospective stallion for me to own. He's already a stallion. Although really, I'd prefer him as a gelding.

Dusty'sGirl · 09-11-2008, 07:29 PM

WOW! Nice papers! I deffinetly like the POCO! Also the Doc, Leo, Playboy, and Frecklas! They are all good!

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09-04-2008, 09:14 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	Opinions on this horse & pedigree I am wondering if any of you have any opinions on his pedigree? He's a stallion prospect. The picture isn't great. I'll get a new one tomorrow. Also, sorry about how big the pedigree is. I tried to resize it, but it didn't want to work.

09-04-2008, 09:20 PM
lopintoo Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,223	I love many of the horses in his pedigree. Have his sire and dam been shown? Do they have any earnings?

09-04-2008, 09:24 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	His sire has NCHA earnings. He's only lightly shown, as there are really not many cuttings around here. Playin In Lightnin's dam was also a money earner. His dam was finished, but sold before she was shown as a cutter. She was shown open shows for a bit, then died of West Nile the same year this guy was born.

09-04-2008, 10:08 PM
ThorArb Kid Safe Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Conyers, GA Posts: 5,443	Love the pedigree on this guy! It be really great if his parents did a little more but hey, he's definitely got the genetics behind him. Seems nicely built from what I could tell. He will make a lovely stallion prospect.

09-04-2008, 10:24 PM
lopintoo Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,223	First and foremost conformation and disposition are the biggest things we look for. It doesn't matter how well they are bred if he is conformationally defective or hard to get along with. This colt looks pretty nice. I would like to see better pictures of his legs to be sure. In your area there may not be as many cow horses so it may be a little easier to get outside breedings. In this area the cowhorse business is very competitive. For us to consider a colt as a stallion prospect pedigree wise, (talking cowhorses here) the sire needs to have considerable earnings or if he is young without alot of earnings he currently be real hot, up -n- coming in the show pen. It helps considerably if the colt's dam has earnings. If she does not then her sire needs to have big earnings and she have a very strong dam line. The dam line on either side needs to be strong, especially as producers. Many of the big time names are on his last line of the papers, they will fall off his colts papers. That is another thing to think about. If the sire of this colt is so-so in the show pen or someone has him that is not promoting him I would think twice about him. Not all great sires came from proven parents, but it sure helps to have a well known sire/dam when promoting a stallion. I believe ANY stallion regardless of parentage should prove his worth of being a breeding stallion in some way or another. It is just a leg up to have proven parents to start with when standing a stallion. In this area the cow horse business is really competitive so you have to have a horse that will stand out. We have 3 yr old colts who's sire has won over $144,000 and out of money earning daughters of Doc Hickory and Colonel Freckles. Even with that they will have to prove themselves before being bred. To get outside breedings these guys will have to turn the heads of prospective breeders. Your area may not be as competitive as ours. This colt may be perfect for your needs. I love his pedigree and would expect him to be a performer. I will say though, that much cow horse in one can make them a little hotter. Not always when handling them on the ground, but definetly when riding. Many of ours are sweethearts, but they have a really BIG motor. I'll go ahead and mention this as I know someone will...has he been HERDA tested? Last edited by lopintoo : 09-04-2008 at 10:30 PM.

09-04-2008, 10:31 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	I'm horrible with conformation...but I LOVE the pedigree. My stud is a greatgrandson of Freckles Playboy too. __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

09-04-2008, 10:51 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 727	Over all strong pedigree in all 4 lines. My big things is that for a breeding stallion his sire is weak plus it sounds like he is standing in your area. My thought is if you like the horse go to the sorse. So if I was a mare owner and liked your boy and his sire was close too I would probable go look at him too so you are not bring in anything new. I know for me when I am looking that is one thing I look for. I want to bring in something new to my area. Something that people can not easally get locally and would need to ship semen to get those lines. In that picture he looks nice. Good hip and I like the way he ties in at the shoulder. Should have a nice low head set and nice balanced stop. I am not sure what your major considerations are when looking at differant prospects. For me I would rather have 1 really really nice prospect even if I have to pay what I would for 3 or 4. By the time you put all the cost of finisheing one for the show pen you will be further a head. If his price is low and you feel you can get him in to the show ring with minimal cost and if he dose not pan out and you can get your $$ back selling him as a show gelding them it maybe worth the risk. Only you can answer that question. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.

09-04-2008, 10:56 PM
lopintoo Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,223	nrha... Very good point. We couldn't stand a horse if his sire was right down the road either. That was the whole point for us getting a son of Doc Quixote...not one on every block.

09-05-2008, 07:54 AM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	These bloodlines are very popular in my area right now. We have 2 daughters of his right now. They belong to my daughter. And the gelding in my avatar is also by him and owned once again by my daughter. We really like them. They are all full siblings. What I'd really like to do is geld the horse and ride him. Then hand him over to my son to show. He's got a great disposition.

09-05-2008, 09:01 AM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 727	Now as a gelding prospect I would say go for it. He looks to be built well solid so he should hold up will and stay sound that is a big one for me. Cassie has been in training and showing for 4 almost 5 years and never been lame. To me that is a big deal in a breeding horse and even so in a gelding. Her full brother is a Gelding and is I want to say 3 years older started as a 2yo by Mcquay and shown by Mindy in the Non Pro division won the Tradition finished 4th at the futurity and I think she also showd him quite a bit his 4yo year then was sold to anouther Non Pro who kept on showing him and he is still being shown to this day and he has not had any problems. So I like this and want it in my horses. He looks like he will do well in this area. Plus if you have others by this stallion and like them and do well with them in every area I would say unless they are asking big money for him go for it. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.

09-05-2008, 09:39 AM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	I'd be getting him for the cost of gelding. The ring the testicle goes through on his left side I believe, is very large and the testicle can go up and down. The vet would like to do it as a surgical procedure and close that up so he doesn't get a hernia type deal going on. He is living in my barn right now. He's got a real pretty head, but a little long in the body. I'll go snap some pics once he's done his breakfast. He has zero muscle tone right now cause he has been stall kept since the beginning of April.

09-05-2008, 10:26 AM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 727	Sounds like a deal to me. Get him going and trained and he should make a nice show horse for your son. I know about musle tone. I need to get some new pictures of Te but he has not been worked all summer. He has a lot of muscle but if you go up to him and push on the muscle it shakes like a boul of jelly. It is getting late so if I am going to get new pictures for next year I need to do it soon. As for him being long in the back. That is not something I really worry about unless it is really bad. If you look at the Dun Its they tend to be long too and look how they work and stop. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at. Last edited by nrhareiner : 09-05-2008 at 10:29 AM.

09-05-2008, 11:16 AM
lopintoo Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,223	Oops, somehow I posted twice. Last edited by lopintoo : 09-05-2008 at 11:19 AM.

09-05-2008, 11:18 AM
lopintoo Long Yearling Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,223	As a gelding, I love the pedigree. If you already have siblings that you like, I'd say go for it then. Our Quixote stallion is a little long in the back and he can fold up and turn around just as good as or better than some of the shorter horses. To me, it all depends on the horse and how the rest of him is put together. A cutting trainer once told me given a shorter horse or a longer horse he would take the longer one because they are more flexible through the rib cage than a shorter one. That is why they tend to move and bend easier, but they have to be strong in the hindquarters and in their underline (belly). This colt looks like he ought to be plenty strong enough. I like him, especially for a gelding.

09-05-2008, 11:19 AM
Crookedblaze Started Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,360	Whooowhee, I would love to have a horse with that pedigree. Talk about cowhorse bred. He's gorgeous, too. I can't wait to see more picture. __________________ Owned by Rocketman, a 17 year old AQHA and Stormy, a 10 year old Peruvian Paso x Arab

09-06-2008, 10:37 PM
PaintsQH Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,416	Im just curious as to why you initially posted him as a stallion prospect.. He wouldnt be a prospect at all if his testicles go up and down and needs surgery. This doesnt make much sense to me. Do you already own him __________________ My treasures do not clink, they gleam in the sunlight and neigh in the night

09-07-2008, 08:49 PM
reiningfan Yearling Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Western Manitoba, Canada Posts: 516	The ring that should keep the testicle down is very large and he can "suck one up" a bit. He's got both testicles. They are both normal, he can just suck one a bit of the way up. Not all the way into his abdominal cavity, but higher than it should go by about 1 1/2 inches. He's not a cryporchid, just got a large ring. The vet is just worried that some intestine could come down easier due to the larger diametre of the ring. He wants to make sure that doesn't happen. I don't own him myself, but he does live here. By stallion prospect, I meant as a prospective stallion for me to own. He's already a stallion. Although really, I'd prefer him as a gelding.

09-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Dusty'sGirl Halter broke Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ironton Posts: 59	WOW! Nice papers! I deffinetly like the POCO! Also the Doc, Leo, Playboy, and Frecklas! They are all good!