Stallion owners!!!!

[dreamer1]

I was thinking about this the other day and thought I would bring up this question.

Those of "us" that own stallions and stand them to the public I was wondering what comes first

Money or quality?

so many people complain about why would you breed "that" mare or no that stallion don't fit your mare so as a stallion owner would you turn someone away cause there mare don't fit your stallion or would you just pocket the money and not think twice about it?

I know when we owned our foundation bred QH stallion we would look at the mare and her conformation/pedigree and what the future plans were for so called foal

then would go from there cause as a "SMALL" breeding farm you'll never make any real money anyway so mind as well be picky about the mares you breed your stallion to better the chances of the foal(s) going on to make something of themselves and give your farm a good name for quality foals.

I think if the stallion owners were more picky about the mares that might help cut down on the number of unwanted horses too.JMO

so I guess when it comes down to it...

Do stallion owners just want the $$$$..

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by dreamer1

would you turn someone away cause there mare don't fit your stallion or would you just pocket the money and not think twice about it?

ABSOLUTELY. I have not bred my stallion yet, he's 5 and I hope to stand him within the next year or 2. However I have already turned down 2 people who were interested in breeding to him. One person's mare was not registered, the other was a QH/Draft cross. I would NEVER breed to a mare that would not compliment my stallion.

#1 as you said, what's the point of bringing poor stock into the world? it completely goes against the entire point of breeding.

#2 foals your stud sires is a DIRECT reflection of HIS quality. if he throws an ugly, poorly conformed foal, all that does it make people not want to breed to him. they don't sit there and say "oh well maybe the dam had a big head or a poor shoulder" nope, they say "man that stallion threw an UGLY baby!"

#3 the problem is, the responsible stallion owners breeding NICE quality studs don't always care about the money, it's the people who are backyard breeders who want the dough. Granted there are some huge farms that have great stallions that don't care who they breed to because the stud has thrown enough NICE babies for him to have a good reputation. But for a small breeding operation, or a NEW stallion being introduced (as mine will be) I would want his first babies to be PRISTENE specimens with good pedigrees, solid conformation, excellent movement, and suprior temperaments. That will make people want to come back and re-breed, or give you referrals.

Good question....

[mafarion]

I do not own a stallion (and I doubt I ever will), but I agree with the mind-set of breeding for quality, not money. Great thread!

[ricoman]

I stand an Andalusian stallion, there aren't many in KY, so I don't have many outside mares coming to him to breed. BUT my first question to the mare owner is ALWAYS, what are your plans for the foal, to sell or for personal use? I usually try to determine if the mare will cross well with my stallion to produce a foal that will fulfill the owners goals. I know what he will and will not correct conformationally and make suggestions to help the mare owner.

[reiningfan]

I start off by having different fees
$500- registered QH, APHA, ApHC. But I do check the mare first.
$750- grades- cause who's gonna breed their grade mae for that much. Just stops them from asking.
$1000- Arabs & others. That will really stop them from bothering me

In all seriousness, I want to breed to good mares and will pick & choose accordingly. We ask what their future goals are and see if our horses will complement each other. If not, I have no problem in turning mares down. As long as my hubby is out of earshot. He'll breed them to anything as long as he can get back a bit of what he's put into the stallions.

[Deanna]

Well thats a good question especialy in these times. I am only interested in breeding registered mares preferably show stock. I like to keep track of the foals to see how they are doing so yes I may be picky the money isnt going to make me rich by a long shot. The other criteria is a healthy horse with a vets certificate. I have seen more times than I can count that the foal resembles the mare more than the stallion so yea the mare should be correct as well.

[TikiGator]

Originally Posted by reiningfan

$500- registered QH, APHA, ApHC. But I do check the mare first.
$750- grades- cause who's gonna breed their grade mae for that much. Just stops them from asking.
$1000- Arabs & others. That will really stop them from bothering me

I like that reiningfan! Heck if they are hell bent on breeding their arab to your stud, if they want to pay, then at least the money makes it worth it!

All I can say is I know some people who have pics of their studs foals...and they are stunning, well put together, and have great feedback from the owners. I have also seen websites of stallions with foals that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. When I do decided to breed Jep, I am absolutely going to be picky esp for the first 2 years...just because I would like a nice portfolio of his foals to show people. After your stud produces some nice babies, you don't have to worry SO much about a reuptation. But just as any business, you don't want to start out with negative feedback.

And really, unless you have a world-class stallion, like DEANNA said, the money won't make you rich in the long shot. It'll pay some bills, feed the stallion, but it's not like you've got a top notch race horse with a $15k stud fee and you're rolling in the dough.

I think in small breeding operations (and even small farm/boarding faciliies), reputation and referrals are what makes your world go round.

[paso_lover]

Without a doubt QUALITY.

[breburtch]

I don't own a stallion but hope to have one to stand one day and for me qaulity always comes before money.

I wouldn't even care if I was low on money and needed it really bad I would never breed a nice stallion to a crappy mare and vice versa same as I would never breed two crappy horse together.

<snipped >

[barefoot rider]

I like to breed for quality as well. BUT what I think is quality and you think is quality and even Joe Blow down the street thinks is quality may not be the same and none of us may be wrong. We talk to the mare owners, see the mare, make suggestions, and go from there.

Case in point. I had a mare several years ago, she was not beautiful never was a cute foal even. She didn't have a fancy pedigree or any AQHA points to help her appeal. I bred her a couple of times to our home stallions so I knew what she produced and wanted something a bit different for my next show horse. She was turned down or needed a supplemental fee to get into the stallions I was looking at that would throw what I wanted. I kept looking. I finally got a FREE breeding to a very nice stallion. I think the breeding turned out well. That mare produced my stallion Regal from that breeding. And the first filly she had is a top rope horse in OK and the second is a National Level Combined Driving competitor.

It is the owners more than the mares that I will turn down. The ones that are just looking to make a baby because it's cute or are looking for a miracle for their mares bad attitude/training/conformatiom. I have NO problem with grade mares or mares from a different breed. Regal has quite a few registered foals(all but a few and a couple of those were eligible AQHA) only 1 shows AQHA ALL of the rest show where they don't need papers.

I like ugly mares. They produce champions just like the pretty mares BUT they're cheaper.

[mafarion]

Originally Posted by barefoot rider

I like ugly mares. They produce champions just like the pretty mares BUT they're cheaper.

It's that kind of comment that really irks me. A lot of people have that mindset and think, "Oh, even if my horse has a gooserump, post legs, and a straight shoulder, she can make champions and I will be saving a buck!". It just promotes a lot of unecessary breeding when people think that their ugly (as in conformationally, I couldn't care less if it was a solid color or had an unrefined head) horse can make just as nice offspring as the champions, or at least correct horses, for a couple hundred cheaper.

[CowhorseGal]

Originally Posted by reiningfan

I start off by having different fees
$500- registered QH, APHA, ApHC. But I do check the mare first.
$750- grades- cause who's gonna breed their grade mae for that much. Just stops them from asking.
$1000- Arabs & others. That will really stop them from bothering me

In all seriousness, I want to breed to good mares and will pick & choose accordingly. We ask what their future goals are and see if our horses will complement each other. If not, I have no problem in turning mares down. As long as my hubby is out of earshot. He'll breed them to anything as long as he can get back a bit of what he's put into the stallions.

This is too funny but such a great idea... I may be adopting your fees schedule...I get a lot of people wanting to breed to my studs but they are grade mares or just plain junk.. I turn them down except on a rare occasion.. I firmly believe in breeding for quality and not quantity.

With the market they way it is today, the last thing the horse induatry needs is more unregistered or poor quality animals flooding the market.. I just wish the people responsible for creating these animals could understand this.

[Rumonek]

Yes, I have turned down mares. I don't see a problem with Arab mares wanting to breed to a QH. What I do have a problem with though (and this has happened to me a few times) is when people email me to see if my 30" Miniature Stallion can breed their 15.2 hand QH!!! lol

[sweetwaterarabians]

I'm not a stallion owner but did have to mention something here. Just because a horse is grade doesn't mean it is poor quality. I've seen some darn nice grade mares and some horrid registered ones. It's just papers. Since Dreamer1 has an Arab stallion she could breed to anything and still register the baby simply because the stallion is an Arab and the resulting foals could be registered Half Arabian.

I had a palomino Tardy Too granddaughter that was a grade mare (out of a grade mare). She was an awesome mare! Would have been great for breeding to Arabians. A friend of mine had a very nice Arabian stallion. Someone brought a really ugly Appaloosa mare to him to breed. I'm not bashing Apps but this particular one was built ok but just not very attractive. The resulting foal - a gorgeous baby that looked Arab with spots. Doing something like that can help you see how well your stallion passes on. If he can improve the foal no matter how ugly the mare is, you have a good breeding stallion.

I've seen stallion owners give away breedings to owners of really nice mares just to see how he would cross on with a certain mare when they know the cross would be good.

I would have to say if I were a stallion owner I would be particular on who he was bred to as well because with a flooded market we all need to be very careful with breeding.

[Rumonek]

Yes, well, I wouldn't breed to a grade mare... EVER! I too will be standing a stallion that can breed to any breed and the foal be registered.

[barefoot rider]

Ugly to you and ugly to me may very well be different. There is NO conformationally perfect horse. What is a conformation fault in one disipline is often a desired trait in another. If we all did one thing with our horses they would likely all look the same. I am not proposing to breed a conformational mess to try and make a champion. There are some nicely built mares out there that are still FAR from pretty. I have passed on many a high dollar "pretty" mare that was not what I wanted conformationally and bought several "ugly" cheaper mares that were put together the way I wanted. So Yes I like ugly mares! It works for me. It might not for someone else.

[lopintoo]

Quality without a question.

We will judge every mare one her own abilities and qualities. Even though we may see a mare that we would not want to own and breed for ourselves she may be someone else's pride and joy. We take that into consideration. Though, we would not hesitate to turn down a mare that was so conformationally incorrect that it would potentially be too big a chance for the resulting foal to have the same characteristics. If a mare is not what we consider to be conformationally correct, we look at the conformation of the mare and see if the stallion can potentially help the mare to produce a better foal. We may recommend a different stallion that we know will pass on a specific trait that will mesh with the mare better. But we never breed a mare just because we can.

[lopintoo]

Originally Posted by barefoot rider

Ugly to you and ugly to me may very well be different. There is NO conformationally perfect horse. What is a conformation fault in one disipline is often a desired trait in another. If we all did one thing with our horses they would likely all look the same. I am not proposing to breed a conformational mess to try and make a champion. There are some nicely built mares out there that are still FAR from pretty. I have passed on many a high dollar "pretty" mare that was not what I wanted conformationally and bought several "ugly" cheaper mares that were put together the way I wanted. So Yes I like ugly mares! It works for me. It might not for someone else.

I agree.

The mother of Peptoboonsmal is a short ugly mare, yet look at what she produced. Lindly Burch has been quoted as saying that about Royal Blue Boon. Lindy rode, competed, and won on her. She and has benifited trememdously by that particular line of horses. So ugly isn't always bad.

[EquineAlberta]

I agree with the idea of checking out the owner more than that mare. If the mare's owner had proven themselves as breeding good foals, then maybe they know something you don't, and see something in the cross. I can also see the benefit of breeding to a reasonible variety of mares at first, to help establish the type of mares the stallion crosses well with. I mean variety within reason though!

I think there is a "magic" number of foals that a breeder should strive for; enough to get the stallion's name out, but not so many that the bloodline seems common.

For a QH breeder, I can understand why you might not want to breed to a grade, but for certain disciplines, grade just means unregistered...lots of top quality warmbloods with known pedigrees would be classified as grade as their owners didn't bother getting them approved and registered. As well many breeders are seeing the benefit of breeding warmbloods to QH, paint and such as it produces a more rideable sport horse...not everyone is trying to breed the next olympic hopeful.

My Tango mare and her two sons would be considered grade...just REALLY well bred grades!

I also get what barefoot rider is trying to say...if you are breeding for a sport horse, then you are breeding for function, not appearance. What I see as being a functional conformation for what I do, is likey very different than what a reiner or cutter would want to see.

Karen

[PaintsQH]

I gelded my Paint yearling as I didnt want him a stallion. His sire's owner wanted him, but only if left uncut. His sire is getting up in years and my yearling is a nice looking boy. I did not want him to go to them as they have financial problems sometimes and Ive heard by word of mouth that their horses are thin and wormy. I would not wish that life on ANY animal. Esp my own who I love to death.