New photo added! Color testing Bucket

mestep · 08-28-2008, 11:48 AM

Ok, here is the deal I would like to color test Bucket (palomino out of Buckskin and Chestnut) but which test do we need?

Foals to date have been as follows.

Pally to Pally = Pally
sorrel & white Overo + Pally = Pally solid
Grulla tobiano + Pally = Buckskin & White Tobiano
Sorrel & white tobiano + Pally = Pally solid

ThorArb · 08-28-2008, 11:57 AM

Since we already know he is a Palomino we know that he only carries 1 copy of the Cream dilute gene (Cr). He is also a red based horse so we know he is also (ee). His foals have a 50% chance of getting that single copy of his dilute gene (Cr) from him. They will always get one copy of his red gene (e).

Therefore the only thing he really has left that you'd test for is the presence of the Agouti gene which is what makes black based horses bay.

Since his sire was Buckskin there is a good possibility that Bucket inherited agouti but being a red based horse it would not show visually.

ETA: I just saw where he produced a buckskin foal out of a grulla mare. This is an indicator that Bucket does indeed carry Agouti but we dont know if he is homozygous for it or heterozygous. We just know he has at least one copy to give. This is how come you were able to get a buckskin out of a grulla (black + dun). Otherwise the foal would have been a smokey black had he not gave the Agouti gene.

Again only way to know if he is homozygous for Agouti is through testing.

Brittany

PeggySue · 08-29-2008, 08:36 PM

the grulla gave that one foal the A not Bucket if Bucket had Aa he woudl be buckskin

Grulla is DUN on a black based horse
smokey black is cream on a black based horse
buckskin is cream on bay
pally is cream on red base

nrhareiner · 08-29-2008, 08:45 PM

No the Grulla mare could not have given the foal the A (Agouti) as Grulla dose not carry it. The foal go the E (Black) from the mare. The only one the foal could have gotten the gene from is the sire.

Heidi

PeggySue · 08-29-2008, 08:51 PM

http://www.horsecolor.com/dilutions/index.htm

Just for giggles
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

Grullo (Black Dun)

Agouti:

aa

Red Factor:

Ee, EE

Cream:

nn

Silver:

nn

Dun:

Dd

PeggySue · 08-29-2008, 09:14 PM

I had to come back and correct myself I had a air head moment there LOL talking ot honey

the Agouti could come from him

nrhareiner · 08-29-2008, 09:30 PM

It HAD to come from him. NO way the mare passed it on it was not there.

Heidi

cowgirlspurs · 08-30-2008, 04:59 PM

Agouti, if present on black, creates a bay-which would have made the grullo a dun.
The only time agouti hides is on a red based coat-chestnut/palomino.
I have a palomino mare that is homozygous for agouti-really puts a whirl on the possibilities.

mestep · 08-30-2008, 07:42 PM

Here is a pic of the other paint foal and his dam. Sorry it is tiny, but its the only one I have of him. I really do not think his dam is Grulla but she is registered as one. Do you think he is buckskin or something else?

Goldun Acres · 08-30-2008, 08:58 PM

The foal looks buckskin - but the mare does not look grulla. She looks bay(or dun). I guess you could test him for agouti.

We already know he is ee/nCr - the question is whether he is Aa(heterozygous agouti), AA(homozygous agouti), or aa(no agouti gene)?

mestep · 08-30-2008, 09:17 PM

So would checking his agouti help tell us what he should throw crossed on different mares?

Bandit · 08-30-2008, 09:23 PM

Yes, it could tell you if you could get a bay or buckskin from a black mare.

Edited to add: actually from the first post we KNOW he can throw bay or buckskin from a black mare (or black-based) so we know he is atleast heterozygous for agouti. If he is homozyous for agouti then you know you will always get bay or buckskin form a black mare.

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08-28-2008, 11:48 AM
mestep Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Crab Orchard, Ky Posts: 2,162	New photo added! Color testing Bucket Ok, here is the deal I would like to color test Bucket (palomino out of Buckskin and Chestnut) but which test do we need? Foals to date have been as follows. Pally to Pally = Pally sorrel & white Overo + Pally = Pally solid Grulla tobiano + Pally = Buckskin & White Tobiano Sorrel & white tobiano + Pally = Pally solid __________________ Last edited by mestep : 08-30-2008 at 07:43 PM.

08-28-2008, 11:57 AM
ThorArb Kid Safe Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Conyers, GA Posts: 5,443	Since we already know he is a Palomino we know that he only carries 1 copy of the Cream dilute gene (Cr). He is also a red based horse so we know he is also (ee). His foals have a 50% chance of getting that single copy of his dilute gene (Cr) from him. They will always get one copy of his red gene (e). Therefore the only thing he really has left that you'd test for is the presence of the Agouti gene which is what makes black based horses bay. Since his sire was Buckskin there is a good possibility that Bucket inherited agouti but being a red based horse it would not show visually. ETA: I just saw where he produced a buckskin foal out of a grulla mare. This is an indicator that Bucket does indeed carry Agouti but we dont know if he is homozygous for it or heterozygous. We just know he has at least one copy to give. This is how come you were able to get a buckskin out of a grulla (black + dun). Otherwise the foal would have been a smokey black had he not gave the Agouti gene. Again only way to know if he is homozygous for Agouti is through testing. Brittany Last edited by ThorArb : 08-28-2008 at 12:02 PM.

08-29-2008, 08:36 PM
PeggySue Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dennison, Illinois Posts: 525	the grulla gave that one foal the A not Bucket if Bucket had Aa he woudl be buckskin Grulla is DUN on a black based horse smokey black is cream on a black based horse buckskin is cream on bay pally is cream on red base

08-29-2008, 08:45 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 727	No the Grulla mare could not have given the foal the A (Agouti) as Grulla dose not carry it. The foal go the E (Black) from the mare. The only one the foal could have gotten the gene from is the sire. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.

08-29-2008, 08:51 PM
PeggySue Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dennison, Illinois Posts: 525	http://www.horsecolor.com/dilutions/index.htm Just for giggles http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp Grullo (Black Dun) Agouti: aa Red Factor: Ee, EE Cream: nn Silver: nn Dun: Dd Last edited by PeggySue : 08-29-2008 at 09:01 PM.

08-29-2008, 09:14 PM
PeggySue Yearling Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dennison, Illinois Posts: 525	I had to come back and correct myself I had a air head moment there LOL talking ot honey the Agouti could come from him

08-29-2008, 09:30 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 727	It HAD to come from him. NO way the mare passed it on it was not there. Heidi __________________ Double Eagle Photography www.doubleeagleph.com Definision of Gun Control: Hiting what you aim at.

08-30-2008, 04:59 PM
cowgirlspurs Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Washago/Severn Bridge Ontario Posts: 1,423	Agouti, if present on black, creates a bay-which would have made the grullo a dun. The only time agouti hides is on a red based coat-chestnut/palomino. I have a palomino mare that is homozygous for agouti-really puts a whirl on the possibilities. __________________ Fufill your fantasies...FG Fantasy Fella

08-30-2008, 07:42 PM
mestep Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Crab Orchard, Ky Posts: 2,162	Here is a pic of the other paint foal and his dam. Sorry it is tiny, but its the only one I have of him. I really do not think his dam is Grulla but she is registered as one. Do you think he is buckskin or something else? __________________

08-30-2008, 08:58 PM
Goldun Acres Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern MN Posts: 1,365	The foal looks buckskin - but the mare does not look grulla. She looks bay(or dun). I guess you could test him for agouti. We already know he is ee/nCr - the question is whether he is Aa(heterozygous agouti), AA(homozygous agouti), or aa(no agouti gene)? __________________ Lacey @ Goldun Acres R.I.P. Grandpa - Forever* and always in my heart!*

08-30-2008, 09:17 PM
mestep Started Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Crab Orchard, Ky Posts: 2,162	So would checking his agouti help tell us what he should throw crossed on different mares? __________________

08-30-2008, 09:23 PM
Bandit Coming two Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 1,787	Yes, it could tell you if you could get a bay or buckskin from a black mare. Edited to add: actually from the first post we KNOW he can throw bay or buckskin from a black mare (or black-based) so we know he is atleast heterozygous for agouti. If he is homozyous for agouti then you know you will always get bay or buckskin form a black mare. __________________