what will i get

[islander]

from this stud and my new mare--she is already bred?

the man said he is a blue roan but the red face confuses me??






mare

[arabiancowgirl]

The stud is a bay roan

[islander]

thats ehat i thought but his papers say blue??

so what will i get with a bay roan and the paint mare???

[arabiancowgirl]

Go to animalgenetics.us.com It will give you alot more info than I could

[AlbertaGirl]

Originally Posted by islander

thats ehat i thought but his papers say blue??

so what will i get with a bay roan and the paint mare???

Yeah, I'm still confused on whether he's blue or bay roan, but it's definetly one of the two ! You certainly should get color of some sort . Could you ask the stud owner if the stud's ever thrown a red baby? If he hasn't, you might be able to eliminate any of the options below that have "chestnut" in them. Or has he had either your new mare or the stud color tested?

If he is bay roan, these are your color options:
26.37% - Bay Tobiano
26.37% - Bay Roan Tobiano
8.79% - Blue Roan Tobiano
8.79% - Black Tobiano
8.79% - Bay Roan
8.79% - Bay
2.93% - Blue Roan
2.93% - Black
2.34% - Chestnut Tobiano
2.34% - Chestnut Roan Tobiano
0.78% - Chestnut Roan
0.78% - Chestnut

Here's the link to the color calculator http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

[kaykay]

hes definitely a bay roan. people always confuse the two and sometimes you can never convince them because everyone wants a "blue" roan (which is really a black roan)

[islander]

ok not sure what is going on but just looked at pics of my mare's last foal--bred to same stud and he is most definetly blue roan tobiano.
my boss also has one of this studs 2 yr olds from another paint mare and it is also blue roan tobiano

[Crookedblaze]

Ohh a roan tobiano! That would be gorgeous.

One of my neighbors bred her sorrel and white paint mare to a blue roan stud and got the most amazing, gorgeous red roan tobiano baby.

[DoBeSassy]

your mare is black so she very well could have thrown a blue roan( which is a black horse with roaning)

ETA: here is a quote

Black Roan

Also called Blue Roan, this color is caused by the Roaning pattern on a Black base coat. The effect of the white hairs mingling with the black hairs often causes a grey, blue or even purple tint to the body.

The head, mane, tail and lower legs of a Black Roan will be Black. Classic Roans do not have white hairs on these parts of the body. This trait is what sets this pattern apart from other Roaning patterns

[DoBeSassy]

I could be wrong on this, but because they same pairing has produced a black coat, I am going to assume the stud is hetero for the agouti gene

35.16%-black tobi
35.16% bay tobi
11.72% black
11.72% bay
4.69% - Chestnut Tobiano
1.56% - Chestnut


and since homo roan is thought to be leathal, you have a 50% chance of a roan

[islander]

so how did they get the blue roan tobiano--it was the same pair--once and another black and white paint the second pairing--blue roan tobi there too

[DoBeSassy]

blue roan= black horse with roaning

a bay is a black horse with the agouti gene making it lighter
a black horse is black

they could be heter for the black gene, which mean each has a copy of the red gene, but the black is donimate so it covers up the red gene.

if even 1 copy of the black gene is passed on, the horse will have a black base coat.

if the stud passes on an agouti gene, it will lighten the black into a bay.

now the paint gene just covers the coat, kind of like a blanket, as does the roan.

does this make sence?

[islander]

umm--no--lol but i beleive you--not my fortee(sp)

[Rumonek]

BAY roan- roan with a BAY base (agouti) can cary both agouti AND black gene
BLUE (black) roan- roan with a BLACK base
RED roan- roan with a red (chestnut/sorrel) base

Let's pretend that both of these horses are solid. A BLACK mare crossed with a BAY stallion can produce a BLACK, BAY, or CHESTNUT foal.

Now, IF the mare or stallion are HOMOZYGOUS for black (can NOT produce a red foal) you can get a BLACK or BAY foal.

If the sire is homozygous Agouti (bay) you will only get BAY foals.

That means, when breeding your mare to the above stallion you can either get a chestnut, bay, or black foal. (also RED roan, BLUE roan, or BAY roan).

There is a possibility here for ANY color of foal, just because your mare supposedly had a "blue" roan with him before does not mean she will again. It also does NOT show that he isn't a BAY roan (which he is) because the same color possibilities are there whether he is bay or black.

The stud IS a BAY roan. If he wasn't roaned out on his body and the rest of the body was the same color as his head and flanks, he would be BROWN, and therefor, a BAY roan.

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[ToveroMom]

LOL Rumonek-I don't see how you can't see that color genetics is confusing for her. It is for many people-she came here for HELP.
Islander check out Alberta Girls post and that link. The computer program is not always 100% CORRECT-but will give you a good general idea.

[AlbertaGirl]

Rumonek, I see you're new to the forum, and just figured it was cool that you were trying to explain things, but a couple comments were uncalled for . Some people like horses, regardless of color, and don't spend much time on researching that type of stuff, especially when they just own a few riding horses, and don't breed...

Also, she mentioned that she saw pictures of the previous foals

[arabiancowgirl]

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Mod note: If you see inappropriate comments, please use the report post button (the red triangle under the avatar) rather than responding.

[Rumonek]

Originally Posted by arabiancowgirl

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[Rumonek]

<snipped by moderator - refers to previously removed comments> If the foal had the same body coloration as the sire, and was a tobiano, it would be even harder to determine the color, as it could have had excessive face white.

[islander]

i did see pics of the two foals--by boss still has one of them

sorry i dont understand the genetic stuff--so shoot me

and since his ahqa papers said blue roan and everyone is saying he is a bay roan but i knew he had the reddish face--i wasnt sure how this could work

i know thats all he has for stallions so i knew there was no oops involved and have seen pics of the one foal--which is also registered as blue (albiet blue roan tobiano) so-------not being anywhere near the 'expert' of Romenek-i was trying to get it through my highly educated -albiet social worker head-- how it could work this way

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