OlWS

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 12:03 AM

Not sure if this has been researched to death or not....but I would like to discuss it...since there seems to be so many opinions on it.

But...would be great if we could keep it civil please.

I have really tried to do some research on this....and what I have come up with...is the following. I pull this from a website that I found. I will be glad to supply link if asked.

Here are some facts....

What is OLWS and what do the foals look like?

" Lethal "white" foals have blue or washed out grayish eyes (not like true albinos who have pink eyes) and generally have no skin pigmentation at all, although in many cases, some foals have a touch of dark coloration here and there on the body. We had one born with a tail that was partially black. Other than the partially pigmented tail, this absolutely gorgeous foal was snow white. Breeders have reported foals born with small dark spots.

The foals initially appear normal except for their unusual coloring. They're usually breathtakingly beautiful and perfectly conformed. The foals stand and nurse and start playing next to their mothers, like any normal foal. Then you notice that they don't have a bowel movement after they nurse or when you give them an enema. Signs of colic, or intestinal cramping generally begin, from one hour to twelve hours following birth, due to the foal's inability to pass feces."

What type of horse can be effected?

"Current studies point to the theory that both parents must carry a defective gene to create this abnormality. According to the UC Davis study, white patterned "frame" overo Paint horses who carry a certain protein in their genes are most commonly blamed for producing the defect. UC Davis also states that Quarter horses, Thoroughbreds, half Arabians, miniature horses, crop-outs, Paint breeding stocks and Tobianos have also produced "lethal white" foals."

Is OLWS Cureable?

"There is no treatment for OLWSbecause the syndrome is always fatal. The surgery necessary to bypass the intestinal damage has never been successful, due to the extensive nature of this type of lesion. Veterinarians and professional breeder's advise immediate euthanasia for all "lethal" foals as death will inevitably occur. Your vet will not be able to tell if the foal is a "lethal" foal unless they've had extensive experience in this area, until they start showing signs of colic and stress. There are true white foals born on occasion, so we are all reluctant to euthanize a foal until it's in distress, which can take several hours to arise, after they eat and eat and the food goes nowhere. "
What causes the disorder?

"To date, no gene has actually been isolated to blame for the problem. However, researchers have discovered a specific protein in the genes of horses who have produced lethal foals and feel this problem stems from a genetic defect. These same cells also play a role in determining an animal's skin color. Some of the original researchers felt that OWLS might be related to albinism as the physical signs and characteristics of severe albinism and OLWS are very similar."

What happens if I breed two horses together that are both carriers of OLWS?

UC Davis announced their discovery of a mutant gene that appears in DNA strands of horses who have produced lethal white foals. They stated that 25% of matings between overo-to-overo horses result in lethal white foals.

I will add more to this later.

Others please feel free to step in and offer up any information.

Please back it up with refrences though.

oveywon · 08-11-2008, 06:35 AM

You might find specific points you want to discuss here:

http://forum.horsetopia.com/search.php?searchid=1227098

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oveywon

You might find specific points you want to discuss here:

http://forum.horsetopia.com/search.php?searchid=1227098

link did not work for me.

ToveroMom · 08-11-2008, 08:38 AM

Well yes it has been discussed many times-but what exactly are you wanting to know about the issue with Lethals?

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToveroMom

Well yes it has been discussed many times-but what exactly are you wanting to know about the issue with Lethals?

Not wanting to know....I take that back...I do want to know more

just thought it might be helpful to have a thread with facts and references. Have it lumped together maybe?

You know a lot about it TMom...can you pull up some stuff to post?

I Was trying to find some info threads to post as well.

I have a mare that is a carrier...and I just want there to be a place a person can look and check it out.

You know me....I am always learning!

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 08:40 AM

Here is a link to another thread.

Attention Paint Breeders - Did You Know?

ToveroMom · 08-11-2008, 08:52 AM

There have been so many-they should pull up under ..LWO,lethal foal...etc etc.
Well,let's see-
It takes 2 carriers to produce a lethal foal.
If you test all your possible breeding stock it will not happen.

A fifty dollar test-not so much in the grand scheme of things-less than a vet trip to confirm a pregnancy.

oveywon · 08-11-2008, 08:56 AM

Sorry Freedom -- it was just a link to the search of "OLWS" in the title.
It probably timed out.

Here's a 2 page 2005 discussion that might get you started.
OLWS

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oveywon

Sorry Freedom -- it was just a link to the search of "OLWS" in the title.
It probably timed out.

Here's a 2 page 2005 discussion that might get you started.
OLWS

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToveroMom

There have been so many-they should pull up under ..LWO,lethal foal...etc etc.
Well,let's see-
It takes 2 carriers to produce a lethal foal.
If you test all your possible breeding stock it will not happen.

A fifty dollar test-not so much in the grand scheme of things-less than a vet trip to confirm a pregnancy.

I def agree.

Now that I think about it.....I thought it might be good to have a thread with it all lumped together so a new person...or one such as me still learning about it.....could just see the thread....or even if they have no clue...and can look here and say....o.k. a fifty dollar test can save me a possible dead baby...but maybe not now.

I think I might ask the mods to delete this....it was late last night when I thought of it after reading a thread about it last night.

ToveroMom · 08-11-2008, 09:05 AM

No need to delete it

oveywon · 08-11-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedomnchrist

Now that I think about it.....I thought it might be good to have a thread with it all lumped together so a new person...or one such as me still learning about it.....could just see the thread....or even if they have no clue...and can look here and say....o.k. a fifty dollar test can save me a possible dead baby...but maybe not now.

I think I might ask the mods to delete this....it was late last night when I thought of it after reading a thread about it last night.

No -- I think it's great to bring these topics up again. There's always new information to share and discuss.

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 09:12 AM

K...cause I have some questions too!

So...if I breed a negative to a positive....the resulting foal would not be positive for LWS...but be a carrier.

cowgirlspurs · 08-11-2008, 12:14 PM

50/50 chance of it being a carrier. The other 50% is that it will not have any trace of the gene.

WindyRidge · 08-11-2008, 01:47 PM

<Snipped for rudeness... we follow the Golden Rule on this forum.. Please take the time to reread those rules...

>

MoodyMare · 08-11-2008, 03:57 PM

There was a good bit of information posted on frame overo in this thread that some may like to read.

HYPP, HERDA, Lethal White, Can anyone tell me,

ToveroMom · 08-11-2008, 05:24 PM

The really simple fact is that all breeding stock needs to be tested.

AlbertaGirl · 08-11-2008, 08:36 PM

Lethal White is horrible, which is why I posted a topic about it before (that FNC posted the link to). Only way to get rid of it is to not breed afflicted horses.

There are a couple breeders in my area who breed Paints, and don't test their stock, and I have no respect for that. The one even has one or two positive studs

. Their friend, who also breeds Paints, told me that they've both had Lethal White babies, and that "It's not a big deal"

! I disagree, to say the least... Say a OLWS positive stallion owner breeds to another positive mare, and she produces a OLWS foal, well since the foal stands and nurses, do they even get a Live Foal Guarantee? If so, who would want to rebreed the same way again?!

Anyone who stands an OLWS negative stallion should very proudly display that fact (or HYPP, HERDA, etc) in their ads. If it's not in the ad, ASK

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowgirlspurs

50/50 chance of it being a carrier. The other 50% is that it will not have any trace of the gene.

Glad you clarified this.....I get it now.

It can get confusing sometimes.

Freedomnchrist · 08-11-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToveroMom

The really simple fact is that all breeding stock needs to be tested.

I agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertaGirl

Lethal White is horrible, which is why I posted a topic about it before (that FNC posted the link to). Only way to get rid of it is to not breed afflicted horses.

There are a couple breeders in my area who breed Paints, and don't test their stock, and I have no respect for that. The one even has one or two positive studs

. Their friend, who also breeds Paints, told me that they've both had Lethal White babies, and that "It's not a big deal"

! I disagree, to say the least... Say a OLWS positive stallion owner breeds to another positive mare, and she produces a OLWS foal, well since the foal stands and nurses, do they even get a Live Foal Guarantee? If so, who would want to rebreed the same way again?!

Anyone who stands an OLWS negative stallion should very proudly display that fact (or HYPP, HERDA, etc) in their ads. If it's not in the ad, ASK

And I agree 100%.

I guess it is sad really.

I have a positive mare...and if later on down the road I wish to have a foal from her....which unless I get rich quick...won't happen. But even so....not only do I have to make sure I breed to a negative....I still have a 50% chance the resulting foal would be a carrier!

The picture is getting clearer though.

paintedpastures · 08-11-2008, 11:36 PM

I don't know about not breeding afflicted horses.There is nothing physically wrong with a OLWS carrier.It is the poor breeding practices of some horse owners.Some as Alberta girl said don't care about the 1in 4 risk of having a lethal white baby,the result of breeding 2 carriers together.Other breeders are just lacking knowledge about the risk & breed them out of ignorance.Either type of breeder should not be Breeding horses IMO.
If you are breeding painted breeds you should be testing all your stock for the OLWS gene.This includes your Solids & tobi/tovero's yes they can be carriers too!! Many horses carry a combination of any of the paint genes or it can be minimally displayed.
Frame overo= OLWS.Frame gene in it homozygous form/mating= lethal white foal, a 1 out of 4 chance of it happening when you breed 2 carriers.Frame is the most popular/common overo paint pattern the one most people imagine when thinking overo.It can be present on it's own or in combination with any of the other paint coat patterns.So do you want to take away one of the biggest "color genes" by ceasing to breed these horses?
You can safely breed your carrier horse with a horse that is tested negative for OLWS. These Horses would just carry the tobiano,Sabino overo or splash overo patterns.
I have tested any my breeding horses so I know which matings are "safe". When looking to breed to outside stallions I look for their OLWS status. When we did have a frame Overo stud,I had his OLWS status stated in his breeding contract & recommended any mare to have had prior testing. He had a LFG but that did not include a foal loss due to lethal white.
We just basically bred our own mares to him,just one outside mare.A older man wanted to breed his obviously frame overo mare to him but I tried to explain the lethal white thing to him,he didn't seem to get it so I just finally told him I would not breed her.
Never had a lethal white baby but have Seen one & know of several others.This does not need to happen!!! Please test you breeding stock it is a simple test $25-50 depending which lab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertaGirl

Lethal White is horrible, which is why I posted a topic about it before (that FNC posted the link to). Only way to get rid of it is to not breed afflicted horses.

There are a couple breeders in my area who breed Paints, and don't test their stock, and I have no respect for that. The one even has one or two positive studs

. Their friend, who also breeds Paints, told me that they've both had Lethal White babies, and that "It's not a big deal"

! I disagree, to say the least... Say a OLWS positive stallion owner breeds to another positive mare, and she produces a OLWS foal, well since the foal stands and nurses, do they even get a Live Foal Guarantee? If so, who would want to rebreed the same way again?!

Anyone who stands an OLWS negative stallion should very proudly display that fact (or HYPP, HERDA, etc) in their ads. If it's not in the ad, ASK

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08-11-2008, 12:03 AM
Freedomnchrist Greenbroke Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,312	OlWS Not sure if this has been researched to death or not....but I would like to discuss it...since there seems to be so many opinions on it. But...would be great if we could keep it civil please. I have really tried to do some research on this....and what I have come up with...is the following. I pull this from a website that I found. I will be glad to supply link if asked. Here are some facts.... What is OLWS and what do the foals look like? " Lethal "white" foals have blue or washed out grayish eyes (not like true albinos who have pink eyes) and generally have no skin pigmentation at all, although in many cases, some foals have a touch of dark coloration here and there on the body. We had one born with a tail that was partially black. Other than the partially pigmented tail, this absolutely gorgeous foal was snow white. Breeders have reported foals born with small dark spots. The foals initially appear normal except for their unusual coloring. They're usually breathtakingly beautiful and perfectly conformed. The foals stand and nurse and start playing next to their mothers, like any normal foal. Then you notice that they don't have a bowel movement after they nurse or when you give them an enema. Signs of colic, or intestinal cramping generally begin, from one hour to twelve hours following birth, due to the foal's inability to pass feces." What type of horse can be effected? "Current studies point to the theory that both parents must carry a defective gene to create this abnormality. According to the UC Davis study, white patterned "frame" overo Paint horses who carry a certain protein in their genes are most commonly blamed for producing the defect. UC Davis also states that Quarter horses, Thoroughbreds, half Arabians, miniature horses, crop-outs, Paint breeding stocks and Tobianos have also produced "lethal white" foals." Is OLWS Cureable? "There is no treatment for OLWSbecause the syndrome is always fatal. The surgery necessary to bypass the intestinal damage has never been successful, due to the extensive nature of this type of lesion. Veterinarians and professional breeder's advise immediate euthanasia for all "lethal" foals as death will inevitably occur. Your vet will not be able to tell if the foal is a "lethal" foal unless they've had extensive experience in this area, until they start showing signs of colic and stress. There are true white foals born on occasion, so we are all reluctant to euthanize a foal until it's in distress, which can take several hours to arise, after they eat and eat and the food goes nowhere. " What causes the disorder? "To date, no gene has actually been isolated to blame for the problem. However, researchers have discovered a specific protein in the genes of horses who have produced lethal foals and feel this problem stems from a genetic defect. These same cells also play a role in determining an animal's skin color. Some of the original researchers felt that OWLS might be related to albinism as the physical signs and characteristics of severe albinism and OLWS are very similar." What happens if I breed two horses together that are both carriers of OLWS? UC Davis announced their discovery of a mutant gene that appears in DNA strands of horses who have produced lethal white foals. They stated that 25% of matings between overo-to-overo horses result in lethal white foals. I will add more to this later. Others please feel free to step in and offer up any information. Please back it up with refrences though. Last edited by Freedomnchrist : 08-11-2008 at 12:05 AM.

08-11-2008, 06:35 AM
oveywon Started Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,005	You might find specific points you want to discuss here: http://forum.horsetopia.com/search.php?searchid=1227098 __________________ This Holiday Season remember ... That the place God chose for the birth of His only son was not a church, or a palace, but the home of animals - a stable.

08-11-2008, 08:38 AM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,296	Well yes it has been discussed many times-but what exactly are you wanting to know about the issue with Lethals? __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-11-2008, 08:40 AM
Freedomnchrist Greenbroke Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,312	Here is a link to another thread. Attention Paint Breeders - Did You Know?

08-11-2008, 08:52 AM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,296	There have been so many-they should pull up under ..LWO,lethal foal...etc etc. Well,let's see- It takes 2 carriers to produce a lethal foal. If you test all your possible breeding stock it will not happen. A fifty dollar test-not so much in the grand scheme of things-less than a vet trip to confirm a pregnancy. __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-11-2008, 08:56 AM
oveywon Started Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,005	Sorry Freedom -- it was just a link to the search of "OLWS" in the title. It probably timed out. Here's a 2 page 2005 discussion that might get you started. OLWS __________________ This Holiday Season remember ... That the place God chose for the birth of His only son was not a church, or a palace, but the home of animals - a stable.

08-11-2008, 09:05 AM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,296	No need to delete it __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson

08-11-2008, 09:12 AM
Freedomnchrist Greenbroke Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,312	K...cause I have some questions too! So...if I breed a negative to a positive....the resulting foal would not be positive for LWS...but be a carrier.

08-11-2008, 12:14 PM
cowgirlspurs Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Washago/Severn Bridge Ontario Posts: 1,423	50/50 chance of it being a carrier. The other 50% is that it will not have any trace of the gene. __________________ Fufill your fantasies...FG Fantasy Fella

08-11-2008, 01:47 PM
WindyRidge Newborn Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 7	<Snipped for rudeness... we follow the Golden Rule on this forum.. Please take the time to reread those rules... > Last edited by gbarmranch : 08-11-2008 at 01:50 PM.

08-11-2008, 03:57 PM
MoodyMare Newborn Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The land of Oz Posts: 7	There was a good bit of information posted on frame overo in this thread that some may like to read. HYPP, HERDA, Lethal White, Can anyone tell me,

08-11-2008, 05:24 PM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 15,296	The really simple fact is that all breeding stock needs to be tested. __________________ "In America,anyone can be President. That is one of the chances you take" Adlai Stevenson Last edited by ToveroMom : 08-11-2008 at 07:00 PM.

08-11-2008, 08:36 PM
AlbertaGirl Greenbroke Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alberta Posts: 3,263	Lethal White is horrible, which is why I posted a topic about it before (that FNC posted the link to). Only way to get rid of it is to not breed afflicted horses. There are a couple breeders in my area who breed Paints, and don't test their stock, and I have no respect for that. The one even has one or two positive studs . Their friend, who also breeds Paints, told me that they've both had Lethal White babies, and that "It's not a big deal" ! I disagree, to say the least... Say a OLWS positive stallion owner breeds to another positive mare, and she produces a OLWS foal, well since the foal stands and nurses, do they even get a Live Foal Guarantee? If so, who would want to rebreed the same way again?! Anyone who stands an OLWS negative stallion should very proudly display that fact (or HYPP, HERDA, etc) in their ads. If it's not in the ad, ASK __________________ Some people say horses don't have a sense of humor... they obviously haven't met mine yet ;o)