Color / genetics.

barnbum2106 · 08-06-2008, 11:33 PM

So I have my APHA stallion. I don't breed every year and if I do its only to a few mares. I'm interested in finding out the odds of color off of him. I don't know who to contact or what test to request to find out my odds.

What I know off the top of my head...

Sire: chestnut QH

He's reg. Chestnut stallion.
GSire: Black Overo
Dam: Black overo
GDam: Black QH (reg. brown but barely fades)

So far he has two babies on the ground (w/ 1 on the way for 09). He threw a loud sorrel overo off of a bay overo. He threw a sorrel solid off of a brown looking pony.

He always puts a wide blaze, freckles

, and a left hind sock just like him. And always ads a little more color to the pot. Any help would be great.

MoodyMare · 08-07-2008, 12:35 AM

Well if he is chestnut you have a 100% chance he will pass on an 'e' (red) to all his foals. So really if you are hoping for a chance of anything besides red, breed him to anything else besides a chestnut. lmao

What type of pattern does he have? Since he is from overo breeding have you had him tested for LWO just in case (it can be so minimally expressed that the horse can have little more than a star)?

Wolfie · 08-07-2008, 12:40 AM

What color is he? Do you have a picture?

**Diamond_Y** · 08-07-2008, 07:33 AM

Is Bo the stallion you're asking about? If so, he appears to be solid (I looked at the pictures on your website.) Since he is ee (red), he can only throw a red gene. Any other color will have to come from the dam.

Here is a color calculator you can check out: http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp

barnbum2106 · 08-07-2008, 12:35 PM

Yes Diamond Y, I'm refering to Bo. I should have posted pictures but I will tonight after work.

BUT how can he be ee? his dam is reg. black(maybe brown..stays jet black though). his sire is chestnut to my knowledge. So he's gotta have the black gene right?

He is reg. APHA chestnut SOLID.

kyspottedwalker · 08-07-2008, 12:40 PM

He may not have a black gene. If his dam was not homozygous black, she could have given him a red gene(even if she is black in color).

**Diamond_Y** · 08-07-2008, 01:24 PM

Black is dominant. If he carried a black gene, he would be either black or bay, depending on whether or not he carries an agouti gene. Since he is chestnut, we know he is ee.

DoBeSassy · 08-07-2008, 01:30 PM

The mare may have been Ee which will still result in a black color.
her bred to an ee gives you

50% Ee- which would have made a black coat
50% ee- which would be a chestnut

so you know that your stud is ee

barnbum2106 · 08-07-2008, 10:10 PM

This is so WAY over my head....it just seems like it goes round and round.

As requested...pictures...
From the other day...before riding.

Hoosier...what he produces....

**Orchid** · 08-08-2008, 01:17 PM

Let me put it simply:

There is absolutely NO way your red stallion carries a black gene.

cowgirlspurs · 08-08-2008, 04:20 PM

all chestnut or sorrel horses are homozygous for the chestnut gene-they have to carry 2 copies of the red gene in order to be chestnut and they will always throw one of those red gene to their foals.

Just because a horse is black doesn't mean they carry two copies of the black gene (which is homozygous) they can be one black and one red (heterozygous).

barnbum2106 · 08-08-2008, 11:30 PM

I guess I will have to give up hope that he may have one, or wanting him to have one, or ???...hehe. This gets so confusing....this is probably why I did horrible in my Biology for Non-Majors class last semester! HA Thanks for the help!

barnbum2106 · 08-08-2008, 11:31 PM

I guess the fact that his mom is brown/black and her dam is black is what is throwing me off. I guess I'll deal with it

DoBeSassy · 08-08-2008, 11:41 PM

Black covers up the red gene so it is confusing.

What do you mean by color? paint or a specific color?

If you want a black, breed him to a homo black mare, no matter what the foal will get a copy of the black gene and it will cover the red gene he will contribute and you will get a black foal.

barnbum2106 · 08-08-2008, 11:45 PM

both really.....i know his odds to produce "paint" color is low unless of course bred to a paint or homo paint. he always produces a little more than what he has....i can almost guarantee you a wide blaze which cares to lower lip, some freckles, and a hind left sock.

Sirita_88 · 08-08-2008, 11:46 PM

Let me try to explain it....

Your stallion has two copies of the color gene. He only inherits ONE from his father and ONE from his mother. A horse can only be sorrel if he inherits a sorrel gene from his father and mother. Black always covers up sorrel. So his mom must have had a gene for black AND sorrel, and HAD to pass the Sorrel to your stud. Your stud's sire is Sorrel, so he ONLY has the sorrel gene so he passed his Sorrel gene to your stud. Thus, Your horse ONLY has sorrel genes.

Good news: Since other colors (like black) Hide the sorrel color, if you breed your stud to a different colored horse you have a good chance to have a foal that isn't sorrel.

Bad news: If you breed him to a sorrel mare the foals will always be sorrel.

I tried not to go into to much detail, but I would be happy to explain w/ a puttnet square if you would like to see.

barnbum2106 · 08-09-2008, 12:09 AM

Ha i remember Punett Squares...they were easy...

Thanks...

He's produced a sorrel overo off a bay overo (so she had a red gene).
He's produced a sorrel solid off a smokey black(??) looking pony (an oppsie)(so she had a red gene too)

This year he's been bred to my sorrel QH mare...so I know I have a sorrel on the way....i wish it would have "paint" color though..doubtful. He's also bred a reg. black QH mare(sire grey by grey and sorrel and dam is brown by a bay and bay) this year.....my luck I get a sorrel!

**dandeeqh** · 08-09-2008, 11:46 AM

There is nothing wrong with sorrel horses.

barnbum2106 · 08-09-2008, 11:31 PM

Ohh..I know. 75% of my horses are sorrel. Color always spices up my life though....

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08-06-2008, 11:33 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	Color / genetics. So I have my APHA stallion. I don't breed every year and if I do its only to a few mares. I'm interested in finding out the odds of color off of him. I don't know who to contact or what test to request to find out my odds. What I know off the top of my head... Sire: chestnut QH He's reg. Chestnut stallion. GSire: Black Overo Dam: Black overo GDam: Black QH (reg. brown but barely fades) So far he has two babies on the ground (w/ 1 on the way for 09). He threw a loud sorrel overo off of a bay overo. He threw a sorrel solid off of a brown looking pony. He always puts a wide blaze, freckles, and a left hind sock just like him. And always ads a little more color to the pot. Any help would be great. __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

08-07-2008, 12:35 AM
MoodyMare Newborn Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The land of Oz Posts: 7	Well if he is chestnut you have a 100% chance he will pass on an 'e' (red) to all his foals. So really if you are hoping for a chance of anything besides red, breed him to anything else besides a chestnut. lmao What type of pattern does he have? Since he is from overo breeding have you had him tested for LWO just in case (it can be so minimally expressed that the horse can have little more than a star)?

08-07-2008, 12:40 AM
Wolfie Coming two Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: US Posts: 1,547	What color is he? Do you have a picture?

08-07-2008, 07:33 AM
Diamond_Y Administrator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,624	Is Bo the stallion you're asking about? If so, he appears to be solid (I looked at the pictures on your website.) Since he is ee (red), he can only throw a red gene. Any other color will have to come from the dam. Here is a color calculator you can check out: http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp __________________ Diamond Y Quarter Horses - Breeders of Quality Foundation Quarter Horses Home of King of Cooke County, 2004 Perlino son of Cooke County ETC

08-07-2008, 12:35 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	Yes Diamond Y, I'm refering to Bo. I should have posted pictures but I will tonight after work. BUT how can he be ee? his dam is reg. black(maybe brown..stays jet black though). his sire is chestnut to my knowledge. So he's gotta have the black gene right? He is reg. APHA chestnut SOLID. __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

08-07-2008, 12:40 PM
kyspottedwalker Halter broke Join Date: May 2008 Location: Clarkson, ky Posts: 147	He may not have a black gene. If his dam was not homozygous black, she could have given him a red gene(even if she is black in color). __________________ www.freewebs.com/blueclearsky/ Life ain't always beautiful, but it's a beautiful RIDE!

08-07-2008, 01:24 PM
Diamond_Y Administrator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,624	Black is dominant. If he carried a black gene, he would be either black or bay, depending on whether or not he carries an agouti gene. Since he is chestnut, we know he is ee. __________________ Diamond Y Quarter Horses - Breeders of Quality Foundation Quarter Horses Home of King of Cooke County, 2004 Perlino son of Cooke County ETC

08-07-2008, 01:30 PM
DoBeSassy Seasoned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 4,927	The mare may have been Ee which will still result in a black color. her bred to an ee gives you 50% Ee- which would have made a black coat 50% ee- which would be a chestnut so you know that your stud is ee __________________ There is none so blind as she who will not see

08-07-2008, 10:10 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	This is so WAY over my head....it just seems like it goes round and round. As requested...pictures... From the other day...before riding. Hoosier...what he produces.... __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

08-08-2008, 01:17 PM
Orchid Super Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 9,805	Let me put it simply: There is absolutely NO way your red stallion carries a black gene. __________________ Be thankful.

08-08-2008, 04:20 PM
cowgirlspurs Long Yearling Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Washago/Severn Bridge Ontario Posts: 1,423	all chestnut or sorrel horses are homozygous for the chestnut gene-they have to carry 2 copies of the red gene in order to be chestnut and they will always throw one of those red gene to their foals. Just because a horse is black doesn't mean they carry two copies of the black gene (which is homozygous) they can be one black and one red (heterozygous). __________________ Fufill your fantasies...FG Fantasy Fella

08-08-2008, 11:30 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	I guess I will have to give up hope that he may have one, or wanting him to have one, or ???...hehe. This gets so confusing....this is probably why I did horrible in my Biology for Non-Majors class last semester! HA Thanks for the help! __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

08-08-2008, 11:31 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	I guess the fact that his mom is brown/black and her dam is black is what is throwing me off. I guess I'll deal with it __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

08-08-2008, 11:41 PM
DoBeSassy Seasoned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 4,927	Black covers up the red gene so it is confusing. What do you mean by color? paint or a specific color? If you want a black, breed him to a homo black mare, no matter what the foal will get a copy of the black gene and it will cover the red gene he will contribute and you will get a black foal. __________________ There is none so blind as she who will not see

08-08-2008, 11:45 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	both really.....i know his odds to produce "paint" color is low unless of course bred to a paint or homo paint. he always produces a little more than what he has....i can almost guarantee you a wide blaze which cares to lower lip, some freckles, and a hind left sock. __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier

08-08-2008, 11:46 PM
Sirita_88 Long Yearling Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mt. Juliet, Tennessee Posts: 1,269	Let me try to explain it.... Your stallion has two copies of the color gene. He only inherits ONE from his father and ONE from his mother. A horse can only be sorrel if he inherits a sorrel gene from his father and mother. Black always covers up sorrel. So his mom must have had a gene for black AND sorrel, and HAD to pass the Sorrel to your stud. Your stud's sire is Sorrel, so he ONLY has the sorrel gene so he passed his Sorrel gene to your stud. Thus, Your horse ONLY has sorrel genes. Good news: Since other colors (like black) Hide the sorrel color, if you breed your stud to a different colored horse you have a good chance to have a foal that isn't sorrel. Bad news: If you breed him to a sorrel mare the foals will always be sorrel. I tried not to go into to much detail, but I would be happy to explain w/ a puttnet square if you would like to see. __________________ Paradise Performance Horses. http://www.freewebs.com/paradiseperformance/index.htm

08-09-2008, 12:09 AM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	Ha i remember Punett Squares...they were easy... Thanks... He's produced a sorrel overo off a bay overo (so she had a red gene). He's produced a sorrel solid off a smokey black(??) looking pony (an oppsie)(so she had a red gene too) This year he's been bred to my sorrel QH mare...so I know I have a sorrel on the way....i wish it would have "paint" color though..doubtful. He's also bred a reg. black QH mare(sire grey by grey and sorrel and dam is brown by a bay and bay) this year.....my luck I get a sorrel! __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier Last edited by barnbum2106 : 08-09-2008 at 12:15 AM.

08-09-2008, 11:46 AM
dandeeqh Welcome and Introductions Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,682	There is nothing wrong with sorrel horses. __________________ Brazil's National Horse is now in Canada! http://www.sunsetmarchadors.com The more I know people...The more I love my horses

08-09-2008, 11:31 PM
barnbum2106 Weanling Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 261	Ohh..I know. 75% of my horses are sorrel. Color always spices up my life though.... __________________ Owned by: Bailey, Bo, Lucy, & Hoosier