In utero sales-what are your views/experiances with it..

AQHBarrelRacer · 01-12-2008, 09:17 AM

I see some in utero sales, and curious on everyones views and/or experiances. Im considering putting my future foals for sale like that, but not sure if its really worth it.

Faceman · 01-12-2008, 09:35 AM

When I was breeding I got in utero offers all the time, but never sold that way unless I did a custom breeding for a customer. In those cases I charged a pretty penny and required them to pay (non-refundable) for my stallion breeding report and the foal registration up front as those wanting custom beedings always wanted the foals registered (I normally didn't register my foals for ApHC political reasons). I always preferred to raise and greenbreak them myself so I could really get to know them to match them well with buyers...

Edited to add: By "pretty penny", I mean nearly double what my horses normally sold for. Mine used to sell in the $2,000 - $3,000 range, and I usually charged $3,500 - $5,000 for a custom breeding, depending upon the match. Plus, I charged for expenses (vetting, feed, farrier, etc.) until the foal was delivered to them. I always considered "custom orders" an interruption in my breeding program and charged accordingly...

Linebacker55 · 01-12-2008, 10:12 AM

We have considered it, and been asked about it. We like to see what the foal is like before we price and sell them! This would be why we did not even price any foals until just about2 or 3 months ago!

Silvercreekcrossings · 01-12-2008, 10:13 AM

I would love to sell my foals in utero, and I am advertising them for less if money is put down before they hit the ground. My mares are due in May and I would love to sell the foals ahead of time so that I know whether or not to breed for next year.

Selling in utero would save on medical & maintenance, advertising & time, so I sell in utero at a reduced price.

I can still screen potential future owners to know my babies have a good home in their future.

I don't really see why it would be a problem, but then I only have one stallion and 3 mares so I don't have a ton of breeding combination choices.

DanielleS · 01-12-2008, 11:18 AM

What happens if you sell in utero and the foal is lost?

Linebacker55 · 01-12-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielleS

What happens if you sell in utero and the foal is lost?

That depends on the contract. We would consider it the same as a LFG, and rebreed again. I have seen contracts that if the foal is born it is yours! Early, alive, dead, you take what you get!

It is a gamble when you do this, but it is often times a way to get a high quality foal much cheaper then it would be if it were already on the ground!

Silvercreekcrossings · 01-12-2008, 01:30 PM

Yes I offer a Live Foal Guarantee with mine. In addition, if the foal fails the initial vet check, I will give them credit towards another foal.

Silvercreekcrossings · 01-12-2008, 01:32 PM

The other advantage for the buyer is that, if they are nearby, they can come out and interact with the babies as much as they would like from day one. I use imprinting techniques from birth, and I believe that the more you do with a baby from the time it is very young, the better relationship you will have as it matures.

repetesis · 01-12-2008, 02:21 PM

I did it one time only! Bred the mare and she ended up having to have a C-section and we lost the foal, but saved the mare.
They had to put a sizable down payment and then make monthly payments. The foal was to be payed off by the time it was weaned. Nothing would have been charged to the foal owner ie, shots, farrier, vet until weaned. That was my expense. Also, what ever came out is what they got. No insurance on sex or color.
I ended up refunding the deposit.
To me it just isn't worth it! As linbacker said I like to look at the babies, evaluate them and then price them accordingly.

nrhareiner · 01-12-2008, 03:12 PM

I do not sell in utero However I do sell embryos out of my mare. Works out much better that way as the person buying can pick the stallion then take the recypiant mare home foal her out and raise the foal the way they want. It is very cut and dry. Once the embryo is paid for and all other fees are paid it is all done. Makes everyone happy.

Heidi

gbarmranch · 01-12-2008, 03:15 PM

We have been asked several times - but will not do it. Too many things can go wrong.. However, we will put that person on the top of the list for that foal - and if the foal is viable and healthy after 48 hours, will take a deposit and contract..

Mav2007 · 01-12-2008, 07:43 PM

What if the foal is born with a major non life threatening defect? Would the buyer still have to take it?

Silvercreekcrossings · 01-12-2008, 08:39 PM

It depends on how the contract is written. It would all have to be agreed upon up front

nrhareiner · 01-12-2008, 08:43 PM

Getting a foal in utero is typically cheeper then buying one already on the ground. It is no different then breeding your own mare you take certain risks. If you do not wish to take these risks then either do not breed or waigh for one already on the ground and pay the extra. Breeding is all about the gamble.

Heidi

Faceman · 01-13-2008, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav2007

What if the foal is born with a major non life threatening defect? Would the buyer still have to take it?

I've never had that happen, but if there were some major problem I would not force the sale myself, although they would forfeit the upfront fees.

The big problem is when there is not a MAJOR defect, but a minor conformational problem that could affect performance but not be an issue to just "everyday use". These grey areas are why I didn't sell in utero unless it was a specific custom breeding request. That's also why I charged considerably more for custom breedings. There is not only risk to the buyer, but risk to the breeder. If I sell a foal in utero to someone that wants to compete at endurance at a high level, and the foal just isn't up to the task, it can adversely affect your reputation as a breeder.

As stated by others, it is all a crapshoot. With the best breeding stock there is, all the resarch in the world, and lots of half and full siblings on the ground, there is still no ironclad guaranty of what you will get.

Personally, I think it is much smarter to buy one already down so you know exactly what you are getting...

AQHBarrelRacer · 01-13-2008, 12:25 PM

Can anyone send me a copy of their in utero contract? I want a good idea of what to type up. Im in the process of trading a Sept 08 foal for a barrel prospect. So girl wants a contract to read over and decide with.

repetesis · 01-13-2008, 01:17 PM

I agree with you 100% face! It affects you as a breeder. And, I stand behind my stock as most of you do.

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01-12-2008, 09:17 AM
AQHBarrelRacer Coming two Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,623	In utero sales-what are your views/experiances with it.. I see some in utero sales, and curious on everyones views and/or experiances. Im considering putting my future foals for sale like that, but not sure if its really worth it.

01-12-2008, 09:35 AM
Faceman Kid Safe Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Arkansas Ozarks Posts: 7,421	When I was breeding I got in utero offers all the time, but never sold that way unless I did a custom breeding for a customer. In those cases I charged a pretty penny and required them to pay (non-refundable) for my stallion breeding report and the foal registration up front as those wanting custom beedings always wanted the foals registered (I normally didn't register my foals for ApHC political reasons). I always preferred to raise and greenbreak them myself so I could really get to know them to match them well with buyers... Edited to add: By "pretty penny", I mean nearly double what my horses normally sold for. Mine used to sell in the $2,000 - $3,000 range, and I usually charged $3,500 - $5,000 for a custom breeding, depending upon the match. Plus, I charged for expenses (vetting, feed, farrier, etc.) until the foal was delivered to them. I always considered "custom orders" an interruption in my breeding program and charged accordingly... Last edited by Faceman : 01-12-2008 at 09:43 AM.

01-12-2008, 10:12 AM
Linebacker55 Started Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,272	We have considered it, and been asked about it. We like to see what the foal is like before we price and sell them! This would be why we did not even price any foals until just about2 or 3 months ago! __________________ www.risingwaterqh.com RISING WATER QUARTER HORSES Home of World and Reserve World Champions AQHA/ABRA/IBHA

01-12-2008, 10:13 AM
Silvercreekcrossings Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 333	I would love to sell my foals in utero, and I am advertising them for less if money is put down before they hit the ground. My mares are due in May and I would love to sell the foals ahead of time so that I know whether or not to breed for next year. Selling in utero would save on medical & maintenance, advertising & time, so I sell in utero at a reduced price. I can still screen potential future owners to know my babies have a good home in their future. I don't really see why it would be a problem, but then I only have one stallion and 3 mares so I don't have a ton of breeding combination choices. __________________ Silver Creek Crossings Standing Scotch on the Rocks, FHANA Friesian Specializing in Friesian/Arab Cross http://www.excaliburbreeding.com/Rocky.html

01-12-2008, 11:18 AM
DanielleS Coming two Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Middletown, MD Posts: 1,609	What happens if you sell in utero and the foal is lost? __________________ My horse can inspire tears and cure them with just a look or nuzzle. http://www.freewebs.com/daniellespare/

01-12-2008, 01:30 PM
Silvercreekcrossings Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 333	Yes I offer a Live Foal Guarantee with mine. In addition, if the foal fails the initial vet check, I will give them credit towards another foal. __________________ Silver Creek Crossings Standing Scotch on the Rocks, FHANA Friesian Specializing in Friesian/Arab Cross http://www.excaliburbreeding.com/Rocky.html

01-12-2008, 01:32 PM
Silvercreekcrossings Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 333	The other advantage for the buyer is that, if they are nearby, they can come out and interact with the babies as much as they would like from day one. I use imprinting techniques from birth, and I believe that the more you do with a baby from the time it is very young, the better relationship you will have as it matures. __________________ Silver Creek Crossings Standing Scotch on the Rocks, FHANA Friesian Specializing in Friesian/Arab Cross http://www.excaliburbreeding.com/Rocky.html

01-12-2008, 02:21 PM
repetesis Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sicamous, BC Posts: 665	I did it one time only! Bred the mare and she ended up having to have a C-section and we lost the foal, but saved the mare. They had to put a sizable down payment and then make monthly payments. The foal was to be payed off by the time it was weaned. Nothing would have been charged to the foal owner ie, shots, farrier, vet until weaned. That was my expense. Also, what ever came out is what they got. No insurance on sex or color. I ended up refunding the deposit. To me it just isn't worth it! As linbacker said I like to look at the babies, evaluate them and then price them accordingly. __________________ ~~Delia~~ The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~Elenore Roosevelt~

01-12-2008, 03:12 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 919	I do not sell in utero However I do sell embryos out of my mare. Works out much better that way as the person buying can pick the stallion then take the recypiant mare home foal her out and raise the foal the way they want. It is very cut and dry. Once the embryo is paid for and all other fees are paid it is all done. Makes everyone happy. Heidi

01-12-2008, 03:15 PM
gbarmranch Pasture Pet Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mayberry Posts: 32,634	We have been asked several times - but will not do it. Too many things can go wrong.. However, we will put that person on the top of the list for that foal - and if the foal is viable and healthy after 48 hours, will take a deposit and contract.. __________________ http://home.earthlink.net/~vpgann Quality Foundation Quarter Horses If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself." Augustine of Hippo

01-12-2008, 07:43 PM
Mav2007 Started Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,877	What if the foal is born with a major non life threatening defect? Would the buyer still have to take it?

01-12-2008, 08:39 PM
Silvercreekcrossings Weanling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 333	It depends on how the contract is written. It would all have to be agreed upon up front __________________ Silver Creek Crossings Standing Scotch on the Rocks, FHANA Friesian Specializing in Friesian/Arab Cross http://www.excaliburbreeding.com/Rocky.html

01-12-2008, 08:43 PM
nrhareiner Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 919	Getting a foal in utero is typically cheeper then buying one already on the ground. It is no different then breeding your own mare you take certain risks. If you do not wish to take these risks then either do not breed or waigh for one already on the ground and pay the extra. Breeding is all about the gamble. Heidi

01-13-2008, 12:25 PM
AQHBarrelRacer Coming two Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,623	Can anyone send me a copy of their in utero contract? I want a good idea of what to type up. Im in the process of trading a Sept 08 foal for a barrel prospect. So girl wants a contract to read over and decide with.

01-13-2008, 01:17 PM
repetesis Yearling Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Sicamous, BC Posts: 665	I agree with you 100% face! It affects you as a breeder. And, I stand behind my stock as most of you do. __________________ ~~Delia~~ The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. ~Elenore Roosevelt~