SCID test-cost? Questions too

Fntsyfrm · 01-11-2007, 04:58 PM

I was wondering how much is the SCID test {cost wise}? How do they do it? { blood test/hair sample/ urine?} How long does it take for the results?

Thank-you!

sparkyharky · 01-12-2007, 08:22 AM

I believe the SCID test is done with hair from the mane and costs about 140 USD per horse. I bought two Arabians back in August and I am paying for the SCID testing. If you go directly through the lab it is a little less expensive.

**TDH** · 01-12-2007, 09:31 AM

A cheek swab or blood sample is usually done; more info can be found here:
http://www.vetgen.com/equine-ordering.html

I would likely do the test, it shows prospective buyers you are a responsible owner and would hopefully attract responsible buyers. It's something that is far too hush-hush in the Arabian community, and the more people test, the more people will be informed on the issue. It's amazing how many Arabian owners have never heard of the disease, let alone understand what exactly it is.

ToveroMom · 01-12-2007, 09:38 AM

Well since she is a possible breeding animal I would do the test
TDH put it very well.
I definately think genetic screenings that will possibly affect any broodstock should be done before a sale.

wildcat180 · 01-12-2007, 09:38 AM

Yeah, it's like they're trying to keep it a dirty little secret and I think the horses end up suffering because of it.

I voted yes, mainly because the disease should be more well known and "out there". But if we're talking about a mare that will most likely never seen the breeding shed, well, then I guess it's just not as important. (But I'd still like to see an ad for a horse that is clear, just to know the person selling took the time and cared enough to do it.)

ruffian · 01-12-2007, 09:57 AM

Many years ago I lost a beautiful Appy stud colt to this. The mare was a loud coloured App who was also half Arab. I had never heard of this and when the colt contracted Pnuemonia and died, no one could figure it out until his autopsy. The vet finally made the connection (he had no idea initially that she was part Arab, she looked like a spotted sport horse) It would have been very useful to know this before breeding her.

sparkyharky · 01-12-2007, 01:13 PM

For what it is worth, SCID stands for Severe Combined Immuno-
Deficiency Syndrome. There actually are many REPUTABLE Arabian breeders that test bred their stallions to KNOWN carrier mares then if a SCID foal was born they gelded the stallion AND spayed the mare in question. This was before there was a test for the gene. Bazy Tankersley of Al Marah Arabians was one of those breeders. Al Marah is still in business and I believe Mrs. Tankersley is still with us. We are SO thankful for the test. Only an irresponsible breeder would breed horses without checking SCID results. If my horses turn out to be SCID carriers neither one will be bred. It does take TWO SCID carriers to get a SCID foal.

cameo05 · 01-12-2007, 01:15 PM

Does this need to be done on horses with 1/4 arab blood?

sparkyharky · 01-12-2007, 01:32 PM

I would if you plan to breed to another horse with Arab blood.

cameo05 · 01-12-2007, 01:39 PM

Thank you sparkyharky.

Fntsyfrm · 01-12-2007, 04:00 PM

[quote="TDH"]A cheek swab or blood sample is usually done; more info can be found here:
http://www.vetgen.com/equine-ordering.html

It's something that is far too hush-hush in the Arabian community,

Boy, you hit it right on the head! I have loved and owned Arabians for about 10 years and have never heard of this problems until I joined HT Forum! Now the Arabian mare that I have now has had 3 foals and all have lived. But the last one was a Fresian/Arab. A beautiful colt, but you need 2 Arabian carriers to be worried? But what about the person who lost her Appy/Arabian and found out during the autopsy, that must have been horrible!!
As much as I love my mare, I will be selling her before I get another horse and since she has had 3 successful foalings, I think that will be a good selling point. Her breeding is good too. It breaks my heart to part with her but I can't trust her on trails anymore, she spooks. I do not want to breed her myself as I don't want to do horse training anymore, I am too busy and just want to enjoy the trails and my horse. I checked out that website {thanks TDH} and it is interesting that they can even test for hair color genes?! That's cool.

wildcat180 · 01-13-2007, 09:59 AM

Your mare, while it's probably not likely, could be a carrier of SCIDs. The foals she produces could be carriers. Unless they're bred to another carrier, you wouldn't know it unless you had them tested. It does take two carriers to produce the undesired outcome, and I'm not sure that worked out in the appy/arab cross. I had never heard of it happening in cross breeds before, but appys do have arab blood, so I guess it's possible that in some kind of long shot this person got two carriers together.

sparkyharky · 01-13-2007, 10:04 AM

My bet on the Arab/ Appy cross was that the stallion may have had some Arab blood somewhere in his pedigree as the SCID gene is a classic recessive gene and it takes two recessives to get the SCID foals. Typical Punnet Squares. One normal, two carriers and one with the lethal gene.

Suzie Rae · 01-13-2007, 03:02 PM

Testing is simple and can be done with a simple cheek or lip swab or a blood sample. The cost runs approx. $140.00 plus vet charges.

Perhaps before some of you go spouting off about SCID or the unscrupulous people in the Arabian horse world, it would behoove you to actually get your facts straight ... first as to what SCID is, then the difference between a carrier and an affected horse, and then what the ramifications of SCID are. By definition, carriers are completely free of clinical signs of the disease ... in other words, carriers do not have any negative consequences to their health or their performance. Furthermore, two SCID carriers will NOT automatically produce a SCID AFFECTED foal (remember, there is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between an affected foal and a carrier). Would I personally breed two carriers? No, it isnâ€™t worth the 25% chance of producing a SCID foal, but breeding a CLEAR mare to a carrier, if the carrier is a spectacular horse (and when I say spectacular, I donâ€™t mean Joe Blow down the roadâ€™s â€œprettyâ€ stallion), may be a risk well worth taking, since the worse case scenario is that the foal will be a carrier ... there is NO POSSIBILITY that the foal will be affected, and a reasonable chance that the foal will be clear.

Here are the facts:
Breeding two clear horses will not produce an affected foal or a carrier; additionally, breeding a clear and a carrier will NEVER produce an affected foal ... a possible carrier yes, but affected, no. If two carriers are bred, there is a 25% chance that the foal will be clear, 50% chance that it will be a carrier and 25% chance that it will be affected. What should someone considering breeding do? Make sure one or both of the horses are clear before simply running out to the breeding shed to make a baby ... it is that easy.

As far as SCID being the Arabian breedâ€™s â€˜dirty little secretâ€™, or being â€˜far to hush â€“hush in the Arabian communityâ€™, that is a bunch of BS. If an Arabian owner isnâ€™t aware of SCID, they must be walking around with their eyes and ears completely closed, because SCID has been an open topic of discussion in the Arabian community and the AHA has advocated testing breeding horses for SCID for years. The majority of the Arabian horse owning community canâ€™t help it if there are a few people out there that donâ€™t take an hour to educate themselves about the breed ... perhaps an occasional visit to the AHA web site or to Arabhorse.com would be a good start, but one thing for sure, chit-chatting on a web site that does not specialize in Arabian horses is not the answer.

While there are some unprincipled people in the Arabian horse industry that will hide the status of a known SCID carrier, I wouldnâ€™t say they are an exclusive group ... think HYPP or Lethal White ... how many QH people donâ€™t want to mention those problems? Iâ€™m sure there are other problems with other breeds that people donâ€™t care to discuss too, but I don't lump everyone in those particular breeds together, and neither should anyone here. As far as breeding a mare, it is my personal opinion, that anyone that chooses to breed their mare yet chooses not to educate themselves fully before doing so, perhaps shouldnâ€™t be breeding in the first place, and this goes for ANY breed, not just the Arabian breed.

Sorry if I sound a little testy about this, but I tend to get annoyed with people at times. Yes I have read your profiles, and yes I know some of you have Arabian horses, so there is no reason you need to point that out to me ... what I have said about people needing to get their facts straight before they act as though they are experts still stands.

If anyone here would like to learn more about SCID or Arabian horses in general, PM me and I will be happy to point you in the right direction.

Susanne

sparkyharky · 01-13-2007, 03:15 PM

Suzie...Thank you for clarifying what I was trying to say. You did it so much more clearly than I did. I'm afraid I may have added more confusion to the issue...I am by no means an expert.

Fntsyfrm · 01-13-2007, 04:28 PM

I am not an expert either, that's why I am here asking questions.

wildcat180 · 01-13-2007, 05:38 PM

Not to be argumentative, but I felt I should point out, as someone who does spend a lot of time on the AHA's website, a search of the site only yeilds TWO results for ANY information on SCIDS. One of those, currently, is a classified ad for a horse for sale and the other is a small blurb in the FAQ. Nothing is standing out as saying, "Hey! Test your horses for this because they ARE at risk". So, I'll stand by my "dirty little secret" comment. (Until, of course, such a time when horse ads for MARES, not just stallions at stud, are stating their SCIDS status because, no matter how you feel, it IS a problem in the Arab world.)

Even under their "education" tab, where you think they'd have information on something like this, especially under the "getting your horse ready for breeding", the site is oddly silent.

ToveroMom · 01-13-2007, 06:06 PM

Well having NOT been in Arabs for years-I am surprised that more Arab folks are not aware of the issue.
It has been around for decades.
The new poster is correct in the fact that-you can't let the registries be the end all of your info.You have to get out and research your breed on your own. The info is all over the net.

ON the other hand not anything gained by getting nasty about "chit-chatting on a board that doesn't specialize in arabs" is a bit much. nothing to gain by being rood to other folks to get your point across. Nicer to come in and exchange info and ease on into a new board. Dontcha' think?

I know folks in Beullton can be polite and friendly-firsthand.

So hello and hope you come back refreshed and ready to meet some new folks on here

wildcat180 · 01-13-2007, 06:16 PM

To expand on and agree with something that T-mom pointed out, there is something to be gained by chit chatting on a website that doesn't specialize in Arabs. First, more people read this site than are members. Who knows who reading this? It could be a future Arab owner who may not have heard about this issue in other circles. This web forum has been very informative for so many different issues, it doesn't matter if it specializes in any certain breed. It's about horses, primarily, and if SCIDS can affect a part Arab horse, it's fair to say that it should be an issue that more people are aware of.

I'm not a Quarter Horse person, but I am aware of HYPP because of this site. Should I ever end up owning one, it's good information to just have...

I don't really understand why you would get upset to begin with. You said the same thing we were saying, just in more detail.

Fntsyfrm · 01-13-2007, 06:30 PM

When a person buys a horse, for what ever reason, it doesn't make them a dummy if they don't know 100 % of the problems that their horse's breed may have. Some people love Arabs, brcause they are beautiful or because they have endless energy or because they are sweet. I bought mine for those reasons, I didn't care if she was registered, but she was. I didn't care if she had 3 successful foalings because I don't plan on breeding her. I bought her for trail riding and to teach 4-H kids about "horses", and her stable manners are inpecable {sp?} and you can work in-hand with her easily. She has taken me on many trail rides and taught many children about horses. I never heard about SCID until I joined this forum, {me bad?} G-wiz, don't know what else to say, oh, by the way...how long do the test results take, no body answered that one yet?

View Poll Results: If you were selling an Arabian mare, would you have a SCID test done before advertising
Yes	5	62.50%
No, I would let the new owner do it	2	25.00%
No,other reason	1	12.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

01-11-2007, 04:58 PM
Fntsyfrm Yearling Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 823	SCID test-cost? Questions too I was wondering how much is the SCID test {cost wise}? How do they do it? { blood test/hair sample/ urine?} How long does it take for the results? Thank-you! __________________ Life without horses is not a life.

01-12-2007, 08:22 AM
sparkyharky Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 831	I believe the SCID test is done with hair from the mane and costs about 140 USD per horse. I bought two Arabians back in August and I am paying for the SCID testing. If you go directly through the lab it is a little less expensive. __________________ In Loving Memory of my mother: Leona T. Harkenreader September 19, 1936 to November 23, 2007. You are missed!

01-12-2007, 09:31 AM
TDH Welcome and Introductions Moderator Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 4,227	A cheek swab or blood sample is usually done; more info can be found here: http://www.vetgen.com/equine-ordering.html I would likely do the test, it shows prospective buyers you are a responsible owner and would hopefully attract responsible buyers. It's something that is far too hush-hush in the Arabian community, and the more people test, the more people will be informed on the issue. It's amazing how many Arabian owners have never heard of the disease, let alone understand what exactly it is. __________________ "If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under." - Ronald Reagan

01-12-2007, 09:38 AM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 17,059	Well since she is a possible breeding animal I would do the test TDH put it very well. I definately think genetic screenings that will possibly affect any broodstock should be done before a sale. __________________

01-12-2007, 09:38 AM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,131	Yeah, it's like they're trying to keep it a dirty little secret and I think the horses end up suffering because of it. I voted yes, mainly because the disease should be more well known and "out there". But if we're talking about a mare that will most likely never seen the breeding shed, well, then I guess it's just not as important. (But I'd still like to see an ad for a horse that is clear, just to know the person selling took the time and cared enough to do it.) __________________ www.getyourhorse.com www.forum.getyourhorse.com

01-12-2007, 09:57 AM
ruffian Long Yearling Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,144	Many years ago I lost a beautiful Appy stud colt to this. The mare was a loud coloured App who was also half Arab. I had never heard of this and when the colt contracted Pnuemonia and died, no one could figure it out until his autopsy. The vet finally made the connection (he had no idea initially that she was part Arab, she looked like a spotted sport horse) It would have been very useful to know this before breeding her. __________________ There is something about the outside of a Horse that\'s good for the inside of a man (Will Rogers)

01-12-2007, 01:13 PM
sparkyharky Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 831	For what it is worth, SCID stands for Severe Combined Immuno- Deficiency Syndrome. There actually are many REPUTABLE Arabian breeders that test bred their stallions to KNOWN carrier mares then if a SCID foal was born they gelded the stallion AND spayed the mare in question. This was before there was a test for the gene. Bazy Tankersley of Al Marah Arabians was one of those breeders. Al Marah is still in business and I believe Mrs. Tankersley is still with us. We are SO thankful for the test. Only an irresponsible breeder would breed horses without checking SCID results. If my horses turn out to be SCID carriers neither one will be bred. It does take TWO SCID carriers to get a SCID foal. __________________ In Loving Memory of my mother: Leona T. Harkenreader September 19, 1936 to November 23, 2007. You are missed!

01-12-2007, 01:15 PM
cameo05 Pasture Pet Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In my own world Posts: 12,321	Does this need to be done on horses with 1/4 arab blood?

01-12-2007, 01:32 PM
sparkyharky Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 831	I would if you plan to breed to another horse with Arab blood. __________________ In Loving Memory of my mother: Leona T. Harkenreader September 19, 1936 to November 23, 2007. You are missed!

01-12-2007, 01:39 PM
cameo05 Pasture Pet Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In my own world Posts: 12,321	Thank you sparkyharky.

01-12-2007, 04:00 PM
Fntsyfrm Yearling Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 823	[quote="TDH"]A cheek swab or blood sample is usually done; more info can be found here: http://www.vetgen.com/equine-ordering.html It's something that is far too hush-hush in the Arabian community, Boy, you hit it right on the head! I have loved and owned Arabians for about 10 years and have never heard of this problems until I joined HT Forum! Now the Arabian mare that I have now has had 3 foals and all have lived. But the last one was a Fresian/Arab. A beautiful colt, but you need 2 Arabian carriers to be worried? But what about the person who lost her Appy/Arabian and found out during the autopsy, that must have been horrible!! As much as I love my mare, I will be selling her before I get another horse and since she has had 3 successful foalings, I think that will be a good selling point. Her breeding is good too. It breaks my heart to part with her but I can't trust her on trails anymore, she spooks. I do not want to breed her myself as I don't want to do horse training anymore, I am too busy and just want to enjoy the trails and my horse. I checked out that website {thanks TDH} and it is interesting that they can even test for hair color genes?! That's cool. __________________ Life without horses is not a life. Last edited by Fntsyfrm : 10-03-2007 at 07:29 PM.

01-13-2007, 09:59 AM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,131	Your mare, while it's probably not likely, could be a carrier of SCIDs. The foals she produces could be carriers. Unless they're bred to another carrier, you wouldn't know it unless you had them tested. It does take two carriers to produce the undesired outcome, and I'm not sure that worked out in the appy/arab cross. I had never heard of it happening in cross breeds before, but appys do have arab blood, so I guess it's possible that in some kind of long shot this person got two carriers together. __________________ www.getyourhorse.com www.forum.getyourhorse.com

01-13-2007, 10:04 AM
sparkyharky Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 831	My bet on the Arab/ Appy cross was that the stallion may have had some Arab blood somewhere in his pedigree as the SCID gene is a classic recessive gene and it takes two recessives to get the SCID foals. Typical Punnet Squares. One normal, two carriers and one with the lethal gene. __________________ In Loving Memory of my mother: Leona T. Harkenreader September 19, 1936 to November 23, 2007. You are missed!

01-13-2007, 03:02 PM
Suzie Rae Newborn Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Posts: 9	Testing is simple and can be done with a simple cheek or lip swab or a blood sample. The cost runs approx. $140.00 plus vet charges. Perhaps before some of you go spouting off about SCID or the unscrupulous people in the Arabian horse world, it would behoove you to actually get your facts straight ... first as to what SCID is, then the difference between a carrier and an affected horse, and then what the ramifications of SCID are. By definition, carriers are completely free of clinical signs of the disease ... in other words, carriers do not have any negative consequences to their health or their performance. Furthermore, two SCID carriers will NOT automatically produce a SCID AFFECTED foal (remember, there is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between an affected foal and a carrier). Would I personally breed two carriers? No, it isnâ€™t worth the 25% chance of producing a SCID foal, but breeding a CLEAR mare to a carrier, if the carrier is a spectacular horse (and when I say spectacular, I donâ€™t mean Joe Blow down the roadâ€™s â€œprettyâ€ stallion), may be a risk well worth taking, since the worse case scenario is that the foal will be a carrier ... there is NO POSSIBILITY that the foal will be affected, and a reasonable chance that the foal will be clear. Here are the facts: Breeding two clear horses will not produce an affected foal or a carrier; additionally, breeding a clear and a carrier will NEVER produce an affected foal ... a possible carrier yes, but affected, no. If two carriers are bred, there is a 25% chance that the foal will be clear, 50% chance that it will be a carrier and 25% chance that it will be affected. What should someone considering breeding do? Make sure one or both of the horses are clear before simply running out to the breeding shed to make a baby ... it is that easy. As far as SCID being the Arabian breedâ€™s â€˜dirty little secretâ€™, or being â€˜far to hush â€“hush in the Arabian communityâ€™, that is a bunch of BS. If an Arabian owner isnâ€™t aware of SCID, they must be walking around with their eyes and ears completely closed, because SCID has been an open topic of discussion in the Arabian community and the AHA has advocated testing breeding horses for SCID for years. The majority of the Arabian horse owning community canâ€™t help it if there are a few people out there that donâ€™t take an hour to educate themselves about the breed ... perhaps an occasional visit to the AHA web site or to Arabhorse.com would be a good start, but one thing for sure, chit-chatting on a web site that does not specialize in Arabian horses is not the answer. While there are some unprincipled people in the Arabian horse industry that will hide the status of a known SCID carrier, I wouldnâ€™t say they are an exclusive group ... think HYPP or Lethal White ... how many QH people donâ€™t want to mention those problems? Iâ€™m sure there are other problems with other breeds that people donâ€™t care to discuss too, but I don't lump everyone in those particular breeds together, and neither should anyone here. As far as breeding a mare, it is my personal opinion, that anyone that chooses to breed their mare yet chooses not to educate themselves fully before doing so, perhaps shouldnâ€™t be breeding in the first place, and this goes for ANY breed, not just the Arabian breed. Sorry if I sound a little testy about this, but I tend to get annoyed with people at times. Yes I have read your profiles, and yes I know some of you have Arabian horses, so there is no reason you need to point that out to me ... what I have said about people needing to get their facts straight before they act as though they are experts still stands. If anyone here would like to learn more about SCID or Arabian horses in general, PM me and I will be happy to point you in the right direction. Susanne __________________ Susanne Crimson Farms LLC Buellton, CA

01-13-2007, 03:15 PM
sparkyharky Yearling Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 831	Suzie...Thank you for clarifying what I was trying to say. You did it so much more clearly than I did. I'm afraid I may have added more confusion to the issue...I am by no means an expert. __________________ In Loving Memory of my mother: Leona T. Harkenreader September 19, 1936 to November 23, 2007. You are missed!

01-13-2007, 04:28 PM
Fntsyfrm Yearling Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 823	I am not an expert either, that's why I am here asking questions. __________________ Life without horses is not a life.

01-13-2007, 05:38 PM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,131	Not to be argumentative, but I felt I should point out, as someone who does spend a lot of time on the AHA's website, a search of the site only yeilds TWO results for ANY information on SCIDS. One of those, currently, is a classified ad for a horse for sale and the other is a small blurb in the FAQ. Nothing is standing out as saying, "Hey! Test your horses for this because they ARE at risk". So, I'll stand by my "dirty little secret" comment. (Until, of course, such a time when horse ads for MARES, not just stallions at stud, are stating their SCIDS status because, no matter how you feel, it IS a problem in the Arab world.) Even under their "education" tab, where you think they'd have information on something like this, especially under the "getting your horse ready for breeding", the site is oddly silent. __________________ www.getyourhorse.com www.forum.getyourhorse.com

01-13-2007, 06:06 PM
ToveroMom Pasture Pet Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cleveland TX Posts: 17,059	Well having NOT been in Arabs for years-I am surprised that more Arab folks are not aware of the issue. It has been around for decades. The new poster is correct in the fact that-you can't let the registries be the end all of your info.You have to get out and research your breed on your own. The info is all over the net. ON the other hand not anything gained by getting nasty about "chit-chatting on a board that doesn't specialize in arabs" is a bit much. nothing to gain by being rood to other folks to get your point across. Nicer to come in and exchange info and ease on into a new board. Dontcha' think? I know folks in Beullton can be polite and friendly-firsthand. So hello and hope you come back refreshed and ready to meet some new folks on here __________________

01-13-2007, 06:16 PM
wildcat180 Seasoned Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,131	To expand on and agree with something that T-mom pointed out, there is something to be gained by chit chatting on a website that doesn't specialize in Arabs. First, more people read this site than are members. Who knows who reading this? It could be a future Arab owner who may not have heard about this issue in other circles. This web forum has been very informative for so many different issues, it doesn't matter if it specializes in any certain breed. It's about horses, primarily, and if SCIDS can affect a part Arab horse, it's fair to say that it should be an issue that more people are aware of. I'm not a Quarter Horse person, but I am aware of HYPP because of this site. Should I ever end up owning one, it's good information to just have... I don't really understand why you would get upset to begin with. You said the same thing we were saying, just in more detail. __________________ www.getyourhorse.com www.forum.getyourhorse.com

01-13-2007, 06:30 PM
Fntsyfrm Yearling Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 823	When a person buys a horse, for what ever reason, it doesn't make them a dummy if they don't know 100 % of the problems that their horse's breed may have. Some people love Arabs, brcause they are beautiful or because they have endless energy or because they are sweet. I bought mine for those reasons, I didn't care if she was registered, but she was. I didn't care if she had 3 successful foalings because I don't plan on breeding her. I bought her for trail riding and to teach 4-H kids about "horses", and her stable manners are inpecable {sp?} and you can work in-hand with her easily. She has taken me on many trail rides and taught many children about horses. I never heard about SCID until I joined this forum, {me bad?} G-wiz, don't know what else to say, oh, by the way...how long do the test results take, no body answered that one yet? __________________ Life without horses is not a life.