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Old 04-26-2006, 06:46 PM  
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Strawberry Roan vs. Red Roan

What is the difference between a strawberry roan and a red roan? Does a strawberry roan have more of an "orangeish" tint to the mane and tail?

I've always wondered this and hopefully someone can end my personal debate, haha.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:52 PM  
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I think it's kind of the same thing as Sorrel vs. Chestnut. Basically it's the same thing.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:28 PM  
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I think that strawberry roan vs. red roan actually are different. Strawberry roan has more of an orange tint all through it, I beleive, while red roan can possibly even closer to an auburn colored roan.

By the way- there is a difference in chestnut and sorrel, I beleive. Sorrel had a redder shade to it while chestnut is more of a solid brown.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:32 PM  
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Actually I think those who follow the english method of riding call red horses "chestnuts" and those who do western call them "sorrels". I could be wrong, though. :P

No idea on the roan question, silly MuttDuck has yet to teach us about it on her Genetics 101 sticky.
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:33 PM  
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There are regional differences in what these colors are called but they are all the same thing. strawberry roan and red roan are the same. Most registries moved away from designations like "strawberry" and went to just basic terms.
Genetically sorrels and chestnuts are the same..red.
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Old 04-26-2006, 09:35 PM  
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Sorry guys... I really need to update the stickie...

Yep, Strawberry Roan is a "Red Roan" (Red meaning sorrel or chestnut.)

Any so-called "strawberry roan" that shows black points are really BAY roans.

A blue roan is really a "black roan".

Any so-called "blue roan" with a brown head is really a BAY roan.
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Old 04-27-2006, 05:06 AM  
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Ok, I have a question.

There was a blue roan that I was absolutely in love with, and the guy called her a "true blue"... she was full roan, not patchy, her body, face, and legs were all the same dark blue/purple color with evenly distributed white hairs. I've never seen one like her since. Even her mane and tail were "blue", not black.

So I started looking on horsetopia for blue roans.

The ones with black points, they would be a bay blue roan?

The ones with no "blue".. would they be black roans or still a blue roan?

What about the ones that just look grey?

I guess, the real question, is there many, many different types of blue roans?

I don't see that many variations in the red roans as in the blues.
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Old 04-27-2006, 06:33 AM  
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Here's a helpful site with pics (until I update the stickie...)
http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/roan.htm

Blue roan is a term generally used to describe a black horse with the roan gene.

It can be a black horse with very little white mixed in.
It can be a black horse that is "gun metal" or "steel blue".
It can be a horse that is a pale slate blue.
Or it can have so many white hairs that it looks to have a white body.

The thing with roan is that it starts from the rump (generally) and then spreads forward. Legs, heads, manes and tails are generally "untouched" showing the horse's color beneath the roan.

So a Blue roan should typically have a black head, legs, manes and tails. However, in the extreme cases, there may be a few stray white hairs mixed in.

A blue roan should NOT have a brown head, that is a bay roan.

Another problem generally starts when a black horse with the grey gene starts greying out. People commonly will call them roans when they are greys. It can usually be distinguished because grey will generally give a "spectacled" look (those light rings around the eyes.) Roan doesn't do that.
It can also get confusing when you see a sabino called a "roan" or a varnish "roan" appy. Roan is technically not the gene causing the white hairs.

I will find some ads on HT that give good examples.
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Old 04-27-2006, 06:53 AM  
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On the color issue: My friend and I both have "red" horses. Everybody who looks at them calls mine "sorrel" and hers "chestnut". Genotypically, they may be identical but phenotypically , mine expresses a lot more coppery red and hers expresses a lot closer to auburn/brown. And my neighbor's strawberry gelding expresses a lot more of an orange tone. So I do think it's a valid distinction, regardless of whether or not the registries make note of it.

FYI: I have a bay roan clydesdale that has a steel gray mane and tail and roaning all over her body, legs and head.
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:21 AM  
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True "red roan":
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad108913
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad76196

Red sabino being called a roan:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad97139
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad108379
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad102346 (more white)

Red Appaloosa with varnish roan pattern:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad110123
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad109405 (lots of white)

Red horse that is greying, but they are calling it roan.
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad109413
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad79288

True bay roan:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad92747
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad94723
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad111657
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad110916 (with dun factor)
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad109893 (with corn spots)

Bay sabino
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad85086

Bay Appaloosa with varnish roan pattern (mind you they are calling it red roan.)
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad94016
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad83686

Bay horse that is greying, but they are calling it roan.
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad100909
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad85441
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad105349

True black (blue) roan:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad101752
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad110640

Black sabino:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad108937

Black appaloosa with varnish roan:
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad34238

Black horse that is greying, but they are calling it roan.
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad111637
http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...ifieds/ad65706
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:22 AM  
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Seanachie, your clydesdale's "roan" is a result of the sabino gene, not the roan gene.
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:27 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muttduck
Seanachie, your clydesdale's "roan" is a result of the sabino gene, not the roan gene.
Yep.

I saw a horse the other day advertised as a red roan sabino - nope. Just a sabino.
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Old 04-27-2006, 07:45 AM  
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I've got a roan, we call her "the Pink Pony" her entire body, including her head is pink...LOL...and her mane and tail are an unflattering shade of orange... I would try to post a picture of her but I'm technically challenged...
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:03 AM  
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There actually is a difference between a chestnut and sorrel.

Here are the AQHA definitions:
Chestnut
Body color dark red or brownish-red; mane and tail usually dark red or brownish-red but may be flaxen
Sorrel
Body color reddish or copper-red; mane and tail usually same color as body, but may be flaxen. The most common color of American Quarter Horses

They are pretty much the same except for the key word Copper. IMO any horse showing the copper tint to the coat is sorrel. A reddish brown or golden brown with a slight red tint is Chestnut. Same gene produces them both. Here a couple of examples:
This is Bailey and she is sorrel (AQHA) see the copper coloring.

This is Chellby and she is a Chestnut no copper more red gold.

I picked these two because I sent them to AQHA and APHA to decide on their colors.

It is true that Western people call most "red" horses sorrel and English people call them chestnut. My Charlie (TB) is a true Chesnut medium to liver depending on how much he stays outside. X-Ray (TB)(see other thread Diamond in the Rough) is registered as a chesnut as well, but he really looks more like a sorrel. I think it is more a matter of opinion.
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:06 AM  
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I agree that there is a difference in the way they look - it's just that genetically, it's the same color. There is no differentiating at this point between a "chestnut" gene and a "sorrel" gene - it is just a red gene.

I think that is where it gets confusing.
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:10 AM  
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Wow, didn't mean to open a can of worms here.
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:19 AM  
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No worms to be seen, this is a learning experience!

Just a little note about the sorrel/chestnut terms: the Arabian registry only has "chestnut" as a red option, we don't have the choice of chestnut or sorrel.... so whenever I see a red horse, I think chestnut. Doesn't have anything to do with English/Western in this case, especially since I ride Western (or bareback). So some of the confusion may come from what some registries use which term, I guess is what I'm saying. I completely agree there's not a difference between them genetically.
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:34 AM  
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I always heard the self colored horses of deep colored were chestnuts but the lighter more orangey ones with flax manes were sorrel.
the terminology now is catching up with the new views on genetics.
Things and terminologies change-they evolve.
A roan is at birth the color he will be-aside from annual coat variations caused when the winter coat comes in. they do not add to what they were born with.
She is correct a blue roan with a brown head is a bay roan and the registries just caught up on that one. Aside from that there are just red or blue roans. Variations in the tint are inconsequential so not noted by the registries..or most horse folks.
Sabinos add more white to the coat as they grow-to different degrees.
I love this stuff..interesting indeed!
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:35 AM  
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Ok, to me this is a red roan...

http://www.equusite.com/articles/bas...orsRedRoan.jpg

But when I googled it, this also came up as a red roan... to me, its a BAY roan...

http://www.hodgesfarms.com/pcoaksjohnred.jpg

and to me, this is a strawberry roan...

http://www.western-saddle-horse-tack.../graciess2.jpg
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:45 AM  
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The second one IS a bay roan-however until very recently that was not a color option available to people. Sooo many horses were lumped under the red roan catagory for some time.
The words just change.
Roans with a reddish body-but black points are bay roans. The different degrees of color are all over the place.
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