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Old 06-06-2010, 08:35 AM  
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Question Appy question!

Just curious what coat pattern she would be called? recently got this mare.. she isn't registered.. but she has the white sclera, striped hooves, mottled skin.. and i believe a red roan? would she be a varnish? a frost? the pics arn't a very good image of her, because everytime i take a picture, it looks different then she really is. In a few photos she looks gray, in some it looks like she has a blanket with spots.. every photo is different from what she really looks like in life! just the way the light is i guess.. any info would be great, she's my first appy and i dont know much about their genetics!
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:42 AM  
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I'd say definitely red roan, it looks like she has some varnish, and maybe a snowflake pattern? Not sure.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:47 AM  
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Yea, its hard to tell.. She's 10 and I have no idea what she looked like at birth to go from their either.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:59 AM  
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I'm no color expert, but I'd have to agree that she looks like a red roan with a possible snowflake pattern to me too. Cute horse. I love Appys.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:13 AM  
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Not red roan. She looks to be a varnish chestnut with snowflakes.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:55 PM  
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Appaloosas are wonderful, because they change colors, and people can't agree about pattterns, and everybody has an opinion about what a roan is.
And what varnish marks are.

Here's my opinion:
This mare is showing two, maybe three different coat patterns. She does show the classic varnish marks. I wish I could see her face. Does she show varnish marks there, or does she have a blaze?

She does show snowflakes.

And she is a roan, at least by the ApHC definition of a roan.

It will be interesting to see how she changes over the years. I suspect as a youngster she may have been solid!
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:57 PM  
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http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...d84&id=2365516

Heres her face. You can clearly see where a star was at one point..

Thanks for all the answers! This is all new to me!
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:59 PM  
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Also, could you explain a little more about how you came to these conclusions? I still am having a hard time understanding what varnish marks and snowflakes are! Thanks!
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:50 PM  
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This site has some really GREAT info on appaloosa's coat patterns. http://www.appaloosaproject.info/
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:39 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilditz10502 View Post
Also, could you explain a little more about how you came to these conclusions? I still am having a hard time understanding what varnish marks and snowflakes are! Thanks!

Varnish marks are essentially areas where the original body coat color remains as the horse "roans out." The muzzle, lower legs, knees, and hocks usually remain dark. They show clearly on your mare.

My old App had just about every coat pattern (except snowflake or snowcap).

He was born black, with a blanket and spots. When I got him at seven, he was a blue roan near leopard , with varnish marks on all the above mentioned places, with a white blanket and spots. Frankly, he was lit up like a juke box on Saturday night. He'd had a star as a foal, like your mare. You could barely see the outline when I got him.

As he got older, amazingly, he got darker. Still a blue roan, but more blue and less roan. The "near leopard" look went away. We lost him to cancer at 25.

The snowflakes, well, they are what they sound like: snowflakes. Your mare looks like she's been standing out in a light snow fall. Also referred to as frosting, because she could have been standing outside when a frost occurred.

Snowcap is different. It is a big white blanket without spotting, and is believed to be a sign of homozygous Appaloosa genes.

You could probably get your mare registered with the American Appaloosa Association (just google the name.) They do DNA as a part of the process. It is a small registry, for colored Apps only, and allows "hardship" registration.
While the papers aren't worth much, having the DNA profile is. Especially if you plan to attempt breeding.

BTW, I've heard some people call varnish roans vanish roans. I guess its not a bad way to understand it. The color vanishes and the varnish marks remain!
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:13 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldbear View Post
Varnish marks are essentially areas where the original body coat color remains as the horse "roans out." The muzzle, lower legs, knees, and hocks usually remain dark. They show clearly on your mare.

My old App had just about every coat pattern (except snowflake or snowcap).

He was born black, with a blanket and spots. When I got him at seven, he was a blue roan near leopard , with varnish marks on all the above mentioned places, with a white blanket and spots. Frankly, he was lit up like a juke box on Saturday night. He'd had a star as a foal, like your mare. You could barely see the outline when I got him.

As he got older, amazingly, he got darker. Still a blue roan, but more blue and less roan. The "near leopard" look went away. We lost him to cancer at 25.

The snowflakes, well, they are what they sound like: snowflakes. Your mare looks like she's been standing out in a light snow fall. Also referred to as frosting, because she could have been standing outside when a frost occurred.

Snowcap is different. It is a big white blanket without spotting, and is believed to be a sign of homozygous Appaloosa genes.

You could probably get your mare registered with the American Appaloosa Association (just google the name.) They do DNA as a part of the process. It is a small registry, for colored Apps only, and allows "hardship" registration.
While the papers aren't worth much, having the DNA profile is. Especially if you plan to attempt breeding.

BTW, I've heard some people call varnish roans vanish roans. I guess its not a bad way to understand it. The color vanishes and the varnish marks remain!
Per the bold - That is the Varnish. I still say the mare in question is NOT a standered roan. She is a varnish roan with snowflakes.

Think of it this way - Varnish removes color from all the "soft" places and leaves color where the bones are close to the surface. Like the nasal bones, jaw bones, legs, etc. A varnish horse can change color season to season. Snowflakes can and do come and go.
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:35 AM  
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My guess is that she was born solid chestnut (or maybe a couple very small spots on her hips), and then the varnish gene kicked in. Below are pictures of two mares that I have marked very similar.

This is my 13 yr old mare. She was born with only about 5 quarter sized spots on her hips.

I don't have her real baby pictures on this computer so this was taken winter her weanling year or beginning of spring her yearling year after she began to roan. Sorry for the photo quality. You can see her original face markings very clearly in this photo.



This was her waiting to go into our ground driving class at the state fair fall of her yearling year



This is what she looked like in 08, notice the drastic difference in the face marking.



This was the same filly showing off her markings. The stripe has already started to change a little in this photo, but the lines are still fairly clear.



This was her spring her yearling year



And this is her this spring



I haven't been home to see her since she shed her winter coat, but mom says there are times she has to do a double-take to see if it is the older mare or the two year old. I hope to get to the house this weekend and take updated photos of all of them.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:11 PM  
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thanks so much for all the info guys! you've been great!
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