Tobiano or Tovero

[dressagelady]

I just bought my first Paint horse and am trying to figure out what color pattern she is. I've done some reading on it and, of course, talked to my friends but none of us are Paint horse people and we just can't figure it out. I think she's either Tobiano or Tovero. Can someone more knowledgable on this topic help me out? Here are some pics..
http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/dressage1972/

Thanks!

[ThorArb]

Looks like you got yourself a sorrel Tobiano there.

She displays all of the typical tobiano characteristics.

1. Sheilding
2. Solid face w/ facial markings (ie her blaze)
3. Rounded edges on her coloring
4. White legs

[Horselady44]

I agree...she looks Tobiano. Shes beautiful! A very pretty girl! Congrats on her Also, WELCOME TO HT FROM MONTANA

[RacerMom]

Yep! Tobiano.

[SkipsChic]

She looks a lot like my registered sorrel tobiano mare. I would definitely say you have yourself a beautiful tobiano there. Congrats and welcome to the wonderful world of paints and paint ownership !

[PaintedHeaven07]

I agree with everybody else, I would defiantly say tobiano.

[chery]

beautiful tobiano!

[HorseLovinLady]

Tobiano for sure! She's beautiful congrats!! Welcome to HT, please post more pics.

[dressagelady]

Tobiano it is then. Thanks everybody!

[CowhorseGal]

She is abeautiful mare.. and I agree with tobiano.. however

I must admit I was a bit confused about your title.. I couldn't figure out why you didin't know what her coat pattern was.. A Paint's registration papers will tell you wht her coat pattern is..

Yur mare is a Tobiano PINTO.. no papers..

As a Paint breeder this is one of my biggest pet peeves.. sorry
As I said before she is a beautiful mare and I am sure you will have a great time with her..

[Sirita_88]

Originally Posted by CowhorseGal

She is abeautiful mare.. and I agree with tobiano.. however

I must admit I was a bit confused about your title.. I couldn't figure out why you didin't know what her coat pattern was.. A Paint's registration papers will tell you wht her coat pattern is..

Yur mare is a Tobiano PINTO.. no papers..

As a Paint breeder this is one of my biggest pet peeves.. sorry
As I said before she is a beautiful mare and I am sure you will have a great time with her..

A little OT, but I know how you feel, but you can't get too harsh about the paint/pinto thing. Look at quarter horses, lots o people call thier unregistered quarter horses when they should be simply called "grade"

[paintedpastures]

Originally Posted by CowhorseGal

As a Paint breeder this is one of my biggest pet peeves.. sorry
As I said before she is a beautiful mare and I am sure you will have a great time with her..

Your not alone,It is a Big pet peeve of mine too!!

[PaintsQH]

Pretty girl

[CowhorseGal]

Originally Posted by Sirita_88

A little OT, but I know how you feel, but you can't get too harsh about the paint/pinto thing. Look at quarter horses, lots o people call thier unregistered quarter horses when they should be simply called "grade"

You are absolutly right, I did not mean to be harsh.. I appologize if it came accross that way... And yes the QH thing drives me crazy too..

but the fact remains.. her mare is beautiful..Very nice markings

[ThorArb]

Well I can kinda see what you're saying on the paint/pinto thing. However I dont entirely agree with it.

I had a PAINT mare. Yes she was a full blown PAINT horse. A cremello tobiano and was from registered APHA stock. However her papers were never sent in, I tried to get them later on down the road but the lady that had her dam refused to sign the application- thus I could not get papers on her. So since she is unregistered I should be calling her a Pinto? I think not. Same went for her daughter I had. Sire was also a registered Paint but since I couldnt get the papers on my mare she couldnt get her Paint papers. A Pinto? I dont think so. My horses were just grade/unregistered Paints.

So I guess I would call a horse a Pinto in some situations but certainly not all just because it didnt have APHA papers.


Speaking of APHA papers- I dont find them extremely reliable when it comes to tell you the pattern your horse is. Many, many horses are not marked as the correct pattern. I see it all the time. Tobianos called toveros and vice versa.

[CowhorseGal]

Originally Posted by ThorArb

Well I can kinda see what you're saying on the paint/pinto thing. However I dont entirely agree with it.

I had a PAINT mare. Yes she was a full blown PAINT horse. A cremello tobiano and was from registered APHA stock. However her papers were never sent in, I tried to get them later on down the road but the lady that had her dam refused to sign the application- thus I could not get papers on her. So since she is unregistered I should be calling her a Pinto? I think not. Same went for her daughter I had. Sire was also a registered Paint but since I couldnt get the papers on my mare she couldnt get her Paint papers. A Pinto? I dont think so. My horses were just grade/unregistered Paints.

So I guess I would call a horse a Pinto in some situations but certainly not all just because it didnt have APHA papers.


Speaking of APHA papers- I dont find them extremely reliable when it comes to tell you the pattern your horse is. Many, many horses are not marked as the correct pattern. I see it all the time. Tobianos called toveros and vice versa.

I do understnd what you are saying.. however the definition of a grade horse (around here anyways) is a horse with out registration paprers and/or unknown lineage... had your mare been sold to someone else who did not know that she was out of registered stock.. she would still be a grade..which means she is a Pinto..
we refer to AQHA registered horses as Quarter Horses.. We refer to APHA registered Horses as Paints..not Papered Paints..

I am not trying to start an argument here... but the fact remains.. Most serious Paint breeders will not buy or breed to an 'unregisterd Paint".. go to an APHA breed show and try to enter your unregistered "Paint" ..

I understand that everyone has their opinions about their own horses.. and they are entitiled to that.. but the fact remains that by definition "Paint" is a horse registered with the APHA.. Pinto is a horse with "paint markings" that is not registered with APHA..

[jules1962]

This is my understanding of Paint or Pinto

The terms "Paint" and "Pinto" are often confused when referring to a horse with a light and dark coat pattern. In fact, they have different meanings. The Pinto Horse Association is a color registry, and Pintos can be any breed. Paints are APHA-registered horses that can prove parentage from one of the three approved registries AQHA, TB and APHA, as well as meet a minimum color requirement. While a loud-colored horse could be double-registered if it met the breed standards specified by each registry, the two registries are independent.

[pagcam]

Here in Canada; even Pinto's must have some sort of pedigree; they are not Grade as the lineage of at least one parent must be proven. Otherwise, you are only eligible for "identification" papers.
In other words, Pinto is a colour registry; but they will only register the colour for stock out of at least one registered parent. I expect in time, this will become like the palomino registry, requiring both parents to be registered something.
Five horse examples off my head;
Reg'd Arab X Grade Tobiano = tobiano baby, reg'd Pinto
Reg'd Pinto X Grade TB = tobiano baby, reg'd Pinto
Reg'd Paint X Reg'd Paso = overo baby, reg'd Pinto
Grade Tobiano X Grade TB = Identification Papers only.

[horsegirl4]

Very pretty Tobiano

she looks alot like my sisters pinto/arabian, shes got the same colour and almost the same markings. Just my sisters has alot more white

But she's very pretty none the less

[ThorArb]

The point I was making was Paints are a breed whereas a Pinto is based on coloring. My horses were "purebred" paints, just lacked the paperwork. So they are unregistered Paint horses.

In my eyes all Paints are/can be Pintos but not all Pintos are Paints.

I guess it varies between people on how they describe their horses. To me I see no problem calling a quarter horse an unregistered quarter horse if I know that the horse came from registered stock (like my Paint mare) or whatever. However I would call it a "grade quarter horse" if I couldnt/didnt know that. Example, my QH gelding Togan. I was just told he was a QH. In fact he could really be anything- he is not registered nor do I know whether or not he ever came from any registered stock. I label him as such- a grade QH gelding.

I had a QH mare and filly before that I labeled as unregistered QHs. They were most certainly from registered stock, just none of their paperwork was ever done.

Just how Id describe my horses. To each his own.