*Overdue - Fescue... *Pygmy has arrived, NEW pics on 29, scroll dn*

[muttduck]

I am hoping that someone out there has gone through this before, and to help others out there realize just how SERIOUS fescue toxicity can be, even when you think you've controlled it.

My questions:
- Has anyone else dealt with prolonged gestation from fescue toxicity, and can you share your experience with it?
- Looking at the photos I have below, and reading the whole tale, does anyone have any glimmer of hope to offer me, as to her finally having this baby?


Background:
Lonely is a rescued mare, acquired at Christmas, from a neighbor who had her running with a stallion for about 7 months, until the time I got her (and the stallion, who was placed in a great home.) Before we got her, she was housed in fescue fields for years, fed fescue hay (often moldy), fed low quality cattle grain that she had to fight to get a share of.

The man I got her from claimed she was due in April, no vet checks to confirm, and being in the pasture with the stallion, without 100% watch, there's no way to say when she was really bred.

April Fools Day, I had the vet out to palpate for a better due date, since she was not looking near ready. Vet confirmed the pregnancy, and said that we had a couple of months to go, meaning late May / early June for a baby.

Vet said to dry lot from 30 days out, to minimize the fescue risk. Instead, we dry lotted her a couple of days after the check up, to be safe, since our grass was coming in, and there's lots of fescue. This would be about 6-8 weeks prior to the vet's due date.

Late May came. Mare's vulva was elongated, soft, and deeply wrinkled. Muscles along the tail head were soft and spongy. BUT mare had no bag whatsoever.

Vet said that she felt mid June would be the latest we would go, based on the April palpation, not to worry about not having a bag yet, since it still might come it.

Then, in the first week of June, I found out that she's had multiple histories of not having milk for her foals. Relayed the info to the vet, and we agreed to put her on Domperidone. 5cc/day.

Fast forward to now, end of June, still pregnant, and having been on Domperidone for 21 days (so far). Vet said tests show that domperidone could be given 30 days ahead of foaling, and that there have even been mares on it 4 months in advance. No risk of 'using too much for too long'.

Vet feels that the no milk and the (now obvious) prolonged gestation are fescue related, despite our dry lotting 6-8 weeks before the vet's palpated due date.


As of tonight,
She's in normal mood, raging appetite, solid balled poo, and nothing out of the ordinary. Baby is kicking, so it's alive, and not a falsie.

Her bag has been hard and tight for 2+ weeks now. Milk expressed is slick and greasy at first touch, then super sticky a second later.

(In desperation) I tried the "pool test strips" on her milk tonight, hardness is between 250 and 1000. pH is lower than 6.8.


To help you all grasp the full picture of what we're going through, here's a photo journal:

May 1st (1 month before Vet's Due Date) :
Profile:

Bag:


May 29th (Around Vet's Due Date) :
Profile:

Bag:

(HooHaa):


June 9th (Day after 1st dose of domperidone, before 2nd dose given) :
Profile:

Bag:

(HooHaa) :


June 11th (Day after 3rd dose of domperidone, before 4th dose given) :
Profile:

Bag:

(HooHaa) :


June 28th (Today) (After the 21st dose of domperidone was given):
Profile:

Bag:

(HooHaa):






For those who are curious, this is her pedigree:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/so+lonely

This is the pedigree of the stallion she's bred to (yes, he's HYPP N/N):
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gold+n+fancy+pants

[cascy]

My parents once aquired a mare that was bred and had the fescue toxcity, I was to young to remember alot of the details, but I think they gave her a shot of some sort to start the birthing process, and then they had boughten colostrum for baby, but there was alot of complications with it.... momma lived, but baby was lost

[livinthedream]

Im going through the exact same thing, Barbie is 378 days today, should have Dom, on monday, but she is a mini....little milk, same folds in vulva, squishy tail, .....How many days gestation, do you guess her at? Since the first photo look s as if she has gotten some milk, but nearly not enough, did you get IgG replacer just in case she does not produce it, ...WOW , what is going on with mares this year,

[livinthedream]

Just read ph again, low, maybe baby, soon,

[beth55051]

I'm sorry I can't help you with the fescue toxicity issue but I can send my support and good thoughts that she foals soon and both mom and baby are healthy.

[thesoothesayer]

With the way she looks right now I'd say she'll drop before next weekend, but I could be wrong. She looks ready, the bags could be a bit fuller. She'll be right. You never know, could just be a large foal? She looks like she's starting to V out in the belly. Baby dance for you!

[muttduck]

Originally Posted by livinthedream

How many days gestation, do you guess her at? Since the first photo look s as if she has gotten some milk, but nearly not enough, did you get IgG replacer just in case she does not produce it, ...WOW , what is going on with mares this year,

Going by the vet, when she was palpated, we're a month over when the vet felt she'd foal. Even the vet thought no farther than mid-June when we hit June 1st. Now the vet seems as frustrated as we are that there's no baby yet. There' no exact dates though, just the vet palpation on April Fools.

The June 28th 'bag' pic doesn't show it as well as it could have, but her bag is full and hard (has been for 3 weeks, since finishing her first tube of domperidone.) She's full and hard down into the nipples, too. It is lopsided a tad, and I think it's because the "near" side (the one in 'back' on that pic) may be leaking when she lays down.

[Pixiefly]

are you going to try to induce labor?

[boo_loves_kitty]

All of this is giving me flashbacks to when I was pregnant. I was 2 weeks over due and had gained 60 lbs. I tried everything to go into labor....even castor oil After being induced I gave birth to a 10lb 11oz baby.
I feel very sorry for your mare and hope she has the baby soon!

[muttduck]

99% of the vets around here won't induce. You'd be hard pressed to find one that did.

Our vet is definitely a 'wait and see' vet. She doesn't like to do induce, since most foals aren't in proper position when induced, or the mare goes through a rougher time, and there are often complications.

We had our Jenny go over 2 weeks in January (she foaled at 12 months 2 weeks), and the vet and I had the inducement discussion back at Christmas while planning, including why she generally doesn't do it.

[Range]

When was the last possible date she was bred?

Thinking as the vet would, I don't think induction is a good plan not knowing the exact bred date...the baby just might not be done cooking yet.

Other than that, I have absolutely nothing but good thoughts to send your way. And, a baby dance.

[rescueme]

Never had a mare in foal, but she looks real pregnant in the June photos. Looks like her bag started filling out in the first June picture. She looks so much more pregnant since the first of June. Gut feeling? She's got a few more weeks to go. Prayers for a safe and healthy foal and easy birth for mom. Sounds like you got her just in time. Lucky for her she's got you.

[Deanna]

I would say the vet just had a rough estimate for her gestation stage. I would not want to induce either. I had to have that done on a mare that had her foal die inside her at 9 months and it was not a pretty sight. My mare died the next day.

[candy4legs]

Also, determination of due date via palpation is not an exact science...though she does look to be getting close...foal dances are Horselady's specialty, but I will send prayers for a healthy baby soon...

[kaykay]

To ME her bag isnt quite full enough yet. Most mare right before foaling the bag will get so swollen that its hot to the touch. Also remember when a mare comes in at night with a bag as large as it was in the morning -- foaling is soon.

Be sure to be prepared for what fescue causes.

Bags that dont break and have to be cut open
Red bags---get the foal out as fast as possible
Dystocias
Dummy foals---most dummy foals are fine by about 12 hours but may need help nursing

Not trying to scare you! But if you are prepared for the worst and everythings fine you are ahead of the game!

Do you have some frozen colostrum just in case? I would think though if her milk is sticky now you probably wont need it

[muttduck]

Originally Posted by Range

When was the last possible date she was bred?

Thinking as the vet would, I don't think induction is a good plan not knowing the exact bred date...the baby just might not be done cooking yet.

Other than that, I have absolutely nothing but good thoughts to send your way. And, a baby dance.

I got her, (and him, and 2 other mares) on December 20th. For all we know, there could have been any number of dates, since they were together from sometime in May through the day he was placed (he and the 2 other mares left here December 21).

Vet was pretty confident in saying late May / early June. Of course, without actual cover dates, I know that she was giving a "best guess".

But, if she hadn't been so confident in the dates, we wouldn't have started the domperidone so soon - the plan (hope?) was that she would foal with the first tube (5 days worth), but shouldn't have to have been on it for more than 14 days.

Today is day 22. No baby last night.

[muttduck]

Originally Posted by kaykay

To ME her bag isnt quite full enough yet. Most mare right before foaling the bag will get so swollen that its hot to the touch. Also remember when a mare comes in at night with a bag as large as it was in the morning -- foaling is soon.

Be sure to be prepared for what fescue causes.

Bags that dont break and have to be cut open
Red bags---get the foal out as fast as possible
Dystocias
Dummy foals---most dummy foals are fine by about 12 hours but may need help nursing

Not trying to scare you! But if you are prepared for the worst and everythings fine you are ahead of the game!

Do you have some frozen colostrum just in case? I would think though if her milk is sticky now you probably wont need it

Don't have frozen colostrum - the only think we're lacking.

Definitely prepared (mentally and physically) for the worst. (I'm the queen of playing out the "what if" game.) Foaling kit has been packed and ready to grab at moment's notice for months.
- scissors,
- pocket knife
- booger sucker
- iodine,
- betadine,
- ob lube,
- vaseline,
- short gloves,
- long ob gloves,
- towels,
- thermometer,
- stethoscope,
- enema,
- vet wrap,
- weight tape,
- flashlight with new batteries
- bottle with a foal nipple
- colostrum supplement paste (not a replacer)
- & a donkey still in full milk, who can be milked, or possibly fostered onto.

I have read, and reread about all foaling complications. I have printed out diagrams of mispresentations, with instructions for readjusting the foal.

I've talked to an experienced 'foaler' (and certified vet tech) who has dealt with a fair share of red bags, and mispresentations. She's given clear instructions as to what to do to get the baby the best chance, as well as identifying what I'm seeing / feeling.

Vet is on speed dial, and is 20 minutes away.
Divinemisselle is on speed dial, 5 minutes away.
3 other experienced foalers are on speed dial, 15 minutes away.

[horselady]

I have nothing to add. Just wishing you well and the mare to have a healthy foal ,

[candy4legs]

Looks like you've got it covered...and your speed dials would be wonderful to have in case...

Healthy baby, easy foaling...yep, that's what we want...oh, and soon...

[livinthedream]

Well I was hoping to check in and see a foal, but none here either, my vet coming back out today, she still has little milk, but one side is bigger than other and alittle firmer, but not , enough from my experience. I just keep thinking it is NOT uncommon to go over a year, maybe even 13 months. OK we are a year and 14 days today...yikes, now it sounds funny. Maybe she just truly isnt ready, neither one of them...Iw will keep checking back here to see her progress, tooo,,,good thoughts coming your way